If the crank isn't scored to deeply you can have it turned and re-use it. Hell usually you can get away with just replacing the bearing if the crank isn't jacked up. Then you can just use it.. unless you want to do a build up (HIGHLY recommended... big power potential). For rods, the cheapest good rods out there that I've found are on ebay. There's a company near my home town that's selling H-beams w/ ARP cap screws for 319. Don't cheap out on the rods and go stock. they're weak and you will ventilate the block someday using it in a sports application.

Chip... rod length is 6.658".

SHM has had too many problems delivering to too many people I know. Major lag times on some orders...even simple stuff. hit and miss quality on the motors.

You can easily pump 1000hp from a 5.4 block. They're VERY strong. Aluminum 5.4 (GT) blocks are even better from what I understand. F150 guys... The swap is an even better idea for you. I drove a new f150 with a 4.6 2v and it was woefully underpowered. A 5.4 will fix that.

Lightning blocks are the same as Triton. The only one that's different is the GT block which is aluminum and about 4000 dollars.

SicOne, I know of a guy that's done the swap into a T-Bird so it should work in your Lincoln. A PI swap will be difficult for you unless you go to a mustang intake which will change the side the air filter is on. No matter what there'll be a little custom intake routing work for you but all in all... sounds like a badazz lincoln about to happen. You'll need a cowl hood as well in all likelihood.

Twin... I know about the article. I'm just being the voice of caution. I've done a bit of work in airflow modeling and you have to do some counterintuitive things to get the best results sometimes. If you do them, at least have them flow bench tested before you use them. If you do well enough, you might just have a market for your porting work for guys that don't want a 1200 dollar P&P job.. just a gasket match. Know what I mean. On the turbo...I know it'll work no matter what. It's a machine. We can make it work. I was just making some observations.

For your combo... I'd be thinking about 8.5:1 compression and 16lbs of boost for premium gas with boost specific cams. Then you can run a FAST car and whent the time comes, switch tunes and turn up the wastegate control for 22lbs and 110 octane. You'll need some expensive pistons and rods (I'd look at the offerings from Arias) and an o-ring'd block/head setup so you don't push out a head gasket when you go racing.

 

Yeah I will definitely see if there are any shops around here that have a flow bench if not i know a place back home who does. I only spent a $100 for the whole motor so i'm just hoping it works if not i didn't really lose out on a whole lot. If it does that's great because i would eventually love to have my own performance shop. That's why i'm trying to learn how to do it all on my own with some knowledge of other people i know.

Do you know what size dish piston i would need to get 8.5:1? Or have a cam recommendation? If not i will look into it some more. I found some forged H-beam and I-beam manley rods on ebay for $401.95. Would those work? What's the difference in H-beam and I-beam. I can see the difference but strength wise?

 

The difference in rods from I and H beams is basically weight and sometimes strength. Just being an H or an I style doesn't make a rod strong but you can usually assume that H beams are a good option. H beams have flat sides and a scallop from the skinny side. I beams have a scallop from the wide side and flat skinny sides. Both are attempts to add maximum strength with minimum weight. H beams are used more in mustang build ups but I think that's based on cost.

A proper dish size for you would be like 16 or 17cc's using a stock set of PI heads and stock stroke on standard compression height pistons. The cam will have something to do with your final compression. I'd be looking for a cam with low overlap and a touch more than stock lift. I'd call comp cams and let them tell you what you'll need. They'll let you know and the answers are free.

The $401 rods are good. they'll work. You're only a 100 bucks into the motor so you're way ahead of most people. Build that thing and keep focused. In just a few months you could have a wildly quick car.

 

as far as rods go, i would say do the H beams...forged h-beams are stronger than i-beams until you get into billit rods which is overkill...
the ebay rods for $320 are based off the manley rods, but they are missing 1 one the final process that make it what it is...

 

which would be ....? cmon dude fill us in. I beams can and often are just as strong as H beams. Sometimes they're even lighter too. H beams look all machined and neato which seems to instill some level of comfort. Nonetheless, I'll be popping for a set of H-beams for cost/performance.

 

Now I just need to start saving. I know it isn't going to be a quick build for me but i can't wait to finish it. I'm hoping with in 6 months or so i can get it in though and hopefully there will be an intake out to put on it.

Here's a link to my car on car domain if you wanna look. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2297069

 

badazz is what im going for. Also just something extreamly different I guess I can say. Id have to custom make a cowl but maybe ill be able to get away without or a very mild cowl since I want it to be more of a sleeper

 

Woah this thread is becoming painful and dangerous.

First off....anyone seriously considering dropping thousands of dollars on a modular buildup have it done by professionals (VT Engines, Boss330racing, Modular Performance...) These are not you're run of the mill 5.0 or Small Block Chevy, they require finesse and maticulous attention to detail in order to ensure a long service life.

Adaptor Plates are Junk. They may allow you to bolt everything together but performance will be drastically hindered. Intake manifold design is an art. Slapping a set of adaptor plates to an intake manifold that cannot support the requirements of a 4.6 will never suffice for a performance 5.4L build. There are many factors that need to be taken into consideration and the adaptor plates are a bandaid on a broken leg. But they will "work".

The Forged Cobra cranks are unique to the Cobras. In 1997 and 98 Ford utilized Forged cranks in their 5.4L applications but all 99 and later SOHC 5.4L Cranks are cast. Navigator Motors 99+ still utilize the Forged Units. A performance build will require a Forged Crankshaft.


An appropriately designed I-beam rod has a greater Area Moment of Inertia then their respective H-beam counterparts. The material quality has a large amount to do with the strength of a rod. ARP 3/8" rod bolts are a mininum for a performance build up to ~700hp, ARP 7/16" rod bolts good for whatever you want to throw at it. Area Moment of Inertia is resistance to deflection quantified. Have you ever seen a Bridge made out of steel H-beams?

Twin Turbo 330, building a "performance" 5.4L SOHC motor is almost a contradiction in terms. Building a $10,000+ Turbo setup and not taking advantage of the Flow capabilities of a DOHC is ludicrous. If you're going to drop the cash do it right. HP/L you simply cannot beat a Turbo 4V. Can you say F1?

And with regards to porting 4V (don't even bother with 2V).
Without a flow bench "head porting" is just pissing in the wind. Unless working on the point of greatest restriction there is no point in attempting to port the heads. Things like knife edging the port dividers and gasket matching are going to produce minimal if any gains. The first and foremost important point of attack on a quality port is a multi-angle Valve Job. Next on the 4V heads would be raising the port floor, and improving the short turn radius. The list continues. In most cases the DOHC heads have too much intake port volume so increasing it is certainly counter productive. There are only a handful of people in the country I would trust to touch a set of 4V cylinder heads for my car, and they've been in the business for decades. (Although I will be porting my own.) With the assistance of a Superflow SF-600.

All the conjecture regarding buildups of 5.4L motors is great but please consult a professional engine builder if you're serious about spending any kind of money, and consult them on all matters: Cams, Heads, Rotating Assembly, Block Machining, Billet Oil Pump Gears, Fuel System etc....

 

Lightning247....it's called attention to detail! No one is going to just "SLAP" it together and call it good to go. If someone wants to build a beefy 5.4, then good on them, but don't come in and try to **** on their parade. For the intake adapter plates, well, you use what you can till someone makes something better. Are they crap? maybe, maybe not, but it's a HELL of alot better than the 5.4 truck intake. Intakes are designed in a way, i guess art, and adding the intake adapter plates are not a "bandaid"!! or that's an expensive bandaid. Also you tell people not to port their own heads but your going to port your heads?!? So....i should send my heads to you since your a professional, let me guess...VT or Mod power house, i'll call to say hi to you. Wait, your pretty young, so NO, you don't work there. If you want to give advice, don't be a hyprocite!!! Also if you want to shoot down people ideas or projects, start your own forum and call it "I whine about crap all the time" Thank you

 

Lightning247 I am not just going to put together some stuff and pray it works. I'm on line looking up information 24-7. I don't want to have to do this again. I do stuff right the first time. After I port my heads i will have them flow tested and if i screwed up then i will leave it to the so called professionals. Professionals had to start somewhere. It doesn't take a genius to build motors just pay attention to what you are doing. You just have to know the specs of what each bolt has to be torqued to and the spacing. Which i already have this information so i am not worried. Another thing is i am not rich i'm in the military and have a family i can't just blow all my money on my car so that's why i am doing things myself. We will let the dyno numbers speak for themselves when i'm done.

 

L247... if you'd have read the whole thread, you'd understand that this thread isn't geared toward a "performance" build of a 5.4... it's geared toward simply putting a 5.4L 2V in and realizing the benefit of LOTS of torque without major fuel system upgrades. Before you pee on everyone with your quick and pointless quoting of moments of inertia, and rod bolt recommendations, why not understand the goal of this project. 5.4 2v's are dirt cheap right now and we're taking advantage of that. Savvy?

I'm building a performance motor, and I understand airflow very well so take your elitist BS and keep it to yourself. The intakes that ARE coming out will offer a performance alternative to the mustang intake. In the meantime the RR adapter plates are a means to an end, not a performance mod. They simply allow us to do the swap in the easiest way while the motors are still cheap and plentiful. One or two other guys in this thread are doing performance builds, one is a 4V build, so back the hell up and realize that most of us know the power potential of 2V heads and are comfortable with the limits. Ever think someone might not want an 800hp car. I only want about half of that at the final iteration of my motor.

If you were a real hot rodder at heart you'd not want to act like an elitist punk with a couple useless factoids in your cap, you'd offer useful advice, vendor information and product options, not derision and your view of how useful or useless some particular motor part is.

So, here's my point to you, Back the hell up and let the other 15 or 20 of us do our swaps and share our info in peace. If you have something POSITIVE and USEFUL to say, then say it, otherwise STFU and leave. You aren't making friends right about now or helping in any appreciable way.

 

i was browsing ebay and came across this....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-4l-...QQcmdZViewItem
do you think i should go for it...its already a built 336 shortblock

 

damn.... I'm from Dayton too! $hit, I may have to jump on that thing

 

Do it if it is built!

 

anyone that can should try and buy that block. Just the rotating kit is worth a grand. Add in the block and machine work.

 

here is a complete engine....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-5...QQcmdZViewItem
for those of you who dont want to go thru the hassel of piecing an engine together....

 

that's a 4V but a great price for it.

4V swap would be very difficult and time consuming.

 

First of all I didn't come in here to **** in anyone's cornflakes. I am trying to offer helpful and useful advice to anyone on the forum who is looking to perform these types of swaps. The post I made was in response to specific statements and points of discussion which were up in the air and I decided to clarify. The "pointless quoting of..." are all valuable pieces of information in which someone in this thread was inquiring. If a member interested in a build has to ask critical questions such as "What cams should I use, or what rods would be best for my application"...these are questions to be directed to a professional engine builder or at least to a forum such as Corral.net or Modulardepot.com where these builders frequent; not on a relatively obscure website with a limited knowledge base. I'm not being condescending to this individual or calling them out, its great they are doing research but their efforts would be best spent consulting the pros. This is not to take away mustangtuning or the members, I enjoy this website its a great change of pace. But you would not go to webMD.com to ask advice about a surgery and make an appointment without firsthand approaching a professional to beseech their recommendation.

Kudos to anyone who is planning, attempting, in process, or completed a modular motor swap in their cars. I fully understand the potential benefits and plan of attack for implimenting a 5.4L, 2V or 4V swap into their mustangs. I would like to see people maximize their efforts.

If you must know I am a senior mechanical engineering student, and I study this day in and day out. A 5.4L motor build with a custom Intake manifold is my senior design project and dissertation for my Motorsports concentration. I have taken classes in regards to this field, particularly David Vizard's Cylinder head and flow bench instrumentation course. It is because of these courses and discussions with individuals such as Vizard that I stress my concerns so emphatically. Much of the means and methods concerning performance motor builds and particularly cylinder head design and modification is counter-intuitive, and there is alot of misinformation out there. Again i'm not trying to "shoot down" anyones projects, I empathize with everyone in this thread. But I must stress the importance of doing thorough research from the right sources, particularly if one is going to drop substantial amounts of money on a build. This was the basis for my recommendation for professional engine builders.

Many people aren't interested in 800hp, but everyone in here is searching for performance. The statements I made about Rod Bolts and I vs. H beam rods were directed to those that posed the question, and to anyone considering a 400+hp or Big Boy (ie Twin Turbo 330) setups. Again I'm just providing clarification.

The items I called into question were those associated with individuals particular builds. Twin Turbo 330 I apologize if I seemed to be calling you out, it was not my intention. There are aspects of these motors and of the build you are interested in that I felt needed to be brought to your attention...again I'm just trying to be helpful. My mistake for underestimating your intentions or abilities, but there are many people (some being professionals) who have turned these $500-$900 cylinder heads into paperweights. If you're serious about porting the heads, and have the equipment at hand and access to a flowbench as you have stated...I have some information that you may find useful and would be glad to share it with you. My initial recommendation would be to have the valve job outsourced to a reputable machine shop, ideally with a Serdi machine. A 3/5 angle valve job on a set of 32V heads will be tedious.

Twin Turbo if you would like I can send you an Acrobat file containing the notes from Vizards Flowbench Instrumentation, and Cylinder Head course...you may find it useful in your endeavor.

If anyone still feels the information I posted was useless or just garrulous banter then so be it. If i'm still an "elitest" then so be it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I didn't come here to pick a fight, and could have posted as such but I withheld. That's not what anyone is here for. If redneck, twin turbo, or saleen still don't like the information ive attempted to bring then the table that's I understand, but again I am trying to be helpful.

r3dn3ck i'm sensing some tension from you. No need to come at me with that just because I bring a different perspective to the matter. I feel that every bit of information I provided was useful and pertinent to the discussion. It may not be what some people wanted to hear but then again this is what public forums and constructive criticism are all about. I don't need any more friends; my cup runneth over...but my door is always open.


Game on.
Philip K.

 

The price for that 4V is inticing.

"I also have the matching kenne bell blower in another auction for this motor..."

This is interesting, if true it'll be the first Kenne Bell 5.4L ever.

I'd be interested to know the cam specs...and what rods are in the motor. The listing doesn't specify what rods, just that they have been shot peened. Nothing short of Oliver billet I-beam rods or similar design will exist for long at 8,000 rpm no matter the power level. Substantial valvetrain upgrades would be necessary for 8,000rpm as well.

Regardless 1400 is a good price for a stock used shortblock much less a freshened up motor with cams/valvetrain.

 

L247, I appreciate you taking the time to post the explanation that you did.. but you just didn't come off well in your original post. That's just how it worked out. There's some tension yes... as a ME student you understand that your course of study is death to a party and not the most enjoyable thing for people to discuss. Even in-context quoting of teminology that's specific to mechanical engineering is pointless in mixed company (I'm a sysadmin...I try not to discuss my job around anyone that doesn't do the same thing because it confuses and annoys them... kinda like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig). If you're not in a room full of Physics majors or M.E.'s then your technically accurate words will not only fall on deaf ears but, just might insight a small riot.

I've got enough people to try and disseminate info to without having to calm them down because somebody had to inadvertantly start a web-war. I do desire that you stay on and add the valuable info and skills you have to our discussion but I'd ask that you attempt to admonish only in case of obvious stupidity and otherwise try to phrase things as instructionally as possible. We're all strangers here and text doesn't convey tone of voice, so we have to guess at your intentions with every word.

oke If you read your first post, not as you but as someone who's never met you before you'll see that you make several blanket statements which are the source of much of our frustration and anger. "Adapter plates are junk" is an example very far reaching and closed ended statement which we'd agree with on paper and disagree with in practice. Since they're the only game in town for a while, they're not junk but a bridging device which is beautifully crafted by Reichard. I'm not going to itemize your statements any further, it doesn't do anything but attack you and I don't want to attack you I want you to be a valued member of the conversation. So the poking with a stick ends here and now.

As a contributing member, you are presumably here to do one of a few things, lurk, learn, teach, or **** people off for sport. We've eliminated the last option by your own statement, so please do at least 1 of the first 3 for us. We'll respond in kind.

FWIW, I've put hundreds of hours of my time into negotiating and working with aftermarketers to get parts in production for this swap to grow in popularity. I'll continue working with them long after everyone here has tired of this thread, so yes you'll get some tension from me when something you write causes a frakas because I have to read all that crap and it puts me in a bad mood and slights (even unintentionally) my efforts to help out people I don't give a damn about otherwise for no other reason than the brotherhood of rodding.

keep it cool and you'll get no flak from us. As far as I'm concerned your back to first post status on this thread, so if you'd like, please continue posting any helpful or just interesting stuff you have on this topic.

 

I have to 100% agree on the 8000rpm rods.. the 6.658" rod on the 5.4L is very long and subject to serious RPM related fatiguing. Short of a billet rod... I can't think of any that I'd spin that high.

The upshot is that most guys will think their motor is going to splode' if they got a 5.4 up to about 6500rpm. they get really loud up there and short of a 00' Cobra R intake, there's nothing I've ever seen that'll flow well enough for that and have enough plenum volume to give good throttle response. The motor.. hellz yeah. Totally worth 1400 bucks just for the parts.

 

to try to cool every one off a little, i am pretty certain i have a few people interested in this swap, and will be helping me find the "do's and dont's" of a swap like this..

This might eliminate any concerns of whtas involved and might speed up the process of aftermarket munufacture's making hard parts...mostly an intake, and headers...everything else is mainly a simple swap

L246, i appreciate your concern for everyone attempting this swap, but the adapter plate statement you made is not entirely true...they are made of billit alum. and carry the same flow angle from the intake to the head, so you are adding about 1 inch of runner length..

 

double post.. my bad.

The plates do stand to benefit as delivered from a good smoothing of the sharp angles. But mine are sooo nice looking.

For those that haven't seen them, here's what they look like

www.aossguns.com/images/car/54l/rr_plates1.jpg

www.aossguns.com/images/car/54l/rr_plates2.jpg

www.aossguns.com/images/car/54l/rr_plates3.jpg

and one of my car since nobody's ever seen it...
http://www.aossguns.com/images/car/5...ates_mycar.jpg

 

Lightning247 I appreciate your help and I would appreciate that information that you have, you can send it to my email at 2turb0gt@gmail.com.

The only reason why I was asking those questions about the rods and stuff is that to me r3dn3ck seems like he is knowledgable about these motors so i just threw it out there to find out some info. I appreciate you looking out for me. It did seem to me at first you where putting me down but I'm cool now with you. I would love to have a professional build my motor but for one it's way to expensive but i also want to learn for my self. i don't want to be some punk with a badass car and not know anything about what went into building it.

The motor I'm building is a 2V i don't want to have to get into changing out computers and all of that. I know i will still need a tune but I will definitely be doing that so i get max performance out of the build.

Thanks
Tyler

 

I appreciate the advice also L247 but again, who slaps motors together and call it good. Back woods? Maybe or maybe not. I know Twin Turbo 330, is getting opinions from r3dn3ck all the way to the known professionals. I know alot also but i still like to get opinions from the novice to the experienced. Goodluck on your career though.

 

Saleen S330 do you know how much power/tourque you're putting to the ground yet?

 

Don't think you want to ask that...

BTW... I just got off the phone with hi-performance solutions. He's making a lot of progress on the 5.4 version of their Hardball'r intake. It's VERY promising and has a HUGE plenum and 10"-ish runners instead of 13-15" runners so we'll keep as much tq as possible and gain hp. i'm sending him my spare 5.4 Expedition intake today so he can do some fitment work. (just to be nice).

Saleen330, Hope you don't mind but I sent him your pics so he can use those as a reference. they were so good quality that we're using them to finish the detail planning. Could you send me as many super high resolution shots as you can focusing on the areas around the intake, the alternator mounting, front cover, fuel rails and EGR piping? I'd really appreciate it. I need an example of one that's in already so we can eliminate some of the extra mounting points which aren't used in the mustang application.

 

once i am done with mine...i hope to be 550hp/550tq w/o the N2O...

 

Yea, but thats with what, heads/cams/intake I'm assuming.

I'm talking stock 4.6 PI heads/cams and as of now, the 4.6 intake on a 5.4 built or un built block.

 

if all goes as planned...it will be a forged 5.4, stage 2 heads, comp cams, and my bullitt intake, and a D1SC set to about 12-14#'s

but if that falls through...it will still be forged, but w/my 4.6 heads (shaved .03), comp cams xe268 cams, bullitt intake and a P1SC 14-14#'s maybe 450/450