Mustang Accessories

liljojo4711 · 10-16-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt54

Yep, I pieced it together.

The Nav heads have much larger intake ports than the cobra, the exhaust are the same. The Nav heads also have improved coolant flow around the exhaust area too, good for boosted.

The cams are close match to the Termies, really not much benefit to swapping them, especially in boosted engines. The Nav heads are too big for NA 4.6 engines, but are perfect for boosted 4.6 or 5.4 apps.

http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...tech/tech1.htm

Your best bet is to find a good complete Nav motor if you want to go 5.4 L 4v, since you need all the timing components and front cover, etc....

P.S. There may be some gains from using the Termie/Mach1/Aviator heads due to their improved intake port geometry, but they are not cheap.

if i found a complete navi motor and just did a direct swap what kind of #'s would i be seeing? would it fit under a stock hood?

na svt · 10-16-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt54

The Nav heads have much larger intake ports than the cobra, the exhaust are the same. The Nav heads also have improved coolant flow around the exhaust area too, good for boosted.

The cams are close match to the Termies, really not much benefit to swapping them, especially in boosted engines. The Nav heads are too big for NA 4.6 engines, but are perfect for boosted 4.6 or 5.4 apps.

P.S. There may be some gains from using the Termie/Mach1/Aviator heads due to their improved intake port geometry, but they are not cheap.

There is a huge benefit by going to longer duration cams in 5.4. First, the 184 degree intake cams in 03/04 cobra, mach, marauder and aviator (and navigator) do not have enough duration for the much larger 5.4. A simple cobra cam swap does wonders in 03/04 cobras and it would do the same for a 5.4, even though the 5.4 needs yet another 20 degrees beyond what they offer.

The stock cams will work, but you will be leaving a lot of hp on the garage floor.

You can get 9 thread 03/04 heads for about $400 but the Navi heads will work fine, especially if you match the intake ports.

liljojo4711 · 10-16-2009, 01:50 PM

nice to know. what about it all fitting under a stock hood?

330CubeGt · 10-16-2009, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt54

12.55 @114 on street tires. Don't mind the bog off the line, I was trying to avoid tire spin, so I launched at very low revs. Really starts to haul after it gets rolling.

P.S. This was before the custom tune (added 200 ft/lbs rwtq)

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/i...6-09174654.flv

12.55 @ 114 ain't bad.But for the Claimed Power that thing should be in the 10s...

Hell mine should be a 115+ car and i have way less power not to mention im down 2 valves per cylinder.

I gotta call B.S On the added 200 ft/lbs

TXBLUOVAL · 10-16-2009, 08:11 PM

My understanding here is that about the only off-the-shelf intake manifold you can use with the Nav heads on a 4.6 block is the Sullivan performance 4.6 manifold, and then you seem to still need a radical port match, correct?

Nater · 10-17-2009, 03:45 AM

Question....are Expidition heads the PI or Non PI? Found a wrecked Expidition in the junkyard near here....

*r3dn3ck* · 10-17-2009, 08:49 AM

00' and up are PI. 97-99 are NPI. Note a few very early 00's have been found with NPI heads. Pull the intake before you buy the motor and double check. 04+ are 3v motors and won't work easily.

OmahaMustang · 10-17-2009, 07:52 PM

Need quick basic info.. I began to read this post somewhere around a year to year and half ago. I have been wanting to do this swap for a while..just want the 2v 5.4 swap PI, i am a 98 GT auto right now. 00-03 expedition 99-04 triton?

Just got new tires and battery this week.. waiting for borla mufflers to get in and get them to the shop for custom side exhaust.

So aside from getting the long block.. I remember something about clearance and how one moved the engine down at the motor mounts. Also cutting a little of the ribs away from underside of the hood.

330CubeGt · 10-17-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaMustang

Need quick basic info.

http://mustangboards.com/modular-4-6l-tech/38171-5-4-swap-write-up.html

Morgan The Black · 10-18-2009, 02:15 AM

I've got a quick dumb question, Do AN fittings require an O-ring? I see AN and AN O-ring listed, on summit. Obviously one has an O-ring, but what is the need for it? I'm about to order the stuff to plump up my fuel rails, and dont want to end up with it leaking all over the place.

*r3dn3ck* · 10-18-2009, 09:52 AM

AN O-ring are straight cut fittings that follow the diameter rules of AN taper fittings.

Where it says O-ring, you MUST use o-ring. DO NOT USE NPT threaded fittings in o-ring AN applications even if you can get one to thread.

AN tapered fittings (the hose ends and such) seal using the tapered shoulder. The AN o-ring fittings use the o-ring to seal and the threads are just there for clamping load. Also be aware that the hose type and the hose end type MUST match exactly or you'll never get it to work.

I'll be adding a little more to the how-to thread later today.

On the car front, finishing up some details of the intercooler mount and connecting up all the wiring for my gauges and connecting up the lingering ground lines. Gunna start putting the nitrous kit in and start extending wires. Hooray!

Ordered my balancer last night. Just need an IC pump and a few niggly bits and it'll be off to the tuner.

*r3dn3ck* · 10-18-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaMustang

Need quick basic info.. I began to read this post somewhere around a year to year and half ago. I have been wanting to do this swap for a while..just want the 2v 5.4 swap PI, i am a 98 GT auto right now. 00-03 expedition 99-04 triton?

Just got new tires and battery this week.. waiting for borla mufflers to get in and get them to the shop for custom side exhaust.

So aside from getting the long block.. I remember something about clearance and how one moved the engine down at the motor mounts. Also cutting a little of the ribs away from underside of the hood.

the how-to thread linked above is your source.

Don't worry about lowering the motor mounts, no need.

Cutting the hood is pretty minimal (www.54stangs.com has pics)... takes about 5 minutes with a dremel tool and a drill bit style cutter.

Don't use 99 engines... they're NPI. Use 00 and up for straight swaps.

zigbigadoru · 10-18-2009, 06:50 PM

alright im sick of trying to find it. are the 5.4 cranks forged or cast? what are they made out of? what kind of power can they take?

stalkr · 10-18-2009, 09:49 PM

im doing the 5.4 swap and im also installing a granatelli k member while the engine is out. i was thinking about modifying the k member to lower the engine so that i can use my 4.6 long tube headers. any info on this matter, can it be done, will it work

Bullitt54 · 10-19-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330CubeGt

12.55 @ 114 ain't bad.But for the Claimed Power that thing should be in the 10s...

Hell mine should be a 115+ car and i have way less power not to mention im down 2 valves per cylinder.

I gotta call B.S On the added 200 ft/lbs

FYI, The 12.55@114 was with the factory Bullitt tune. I have yet to run it with the new tune. Also that was on street tires.

I did a dyno run on the stock (KSG2) tune just for laughs and it was 403 ft/lbs rwtq, which is not that bad considering the A/F was going into the 8s.

After tuning, the rwtq jumped to 638 ft/lbs. I have the dyno sheet to prove it.

Bullitt54 · 10-19-2009, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigbigadoru

alright im sick of trying to find it. are the 5.4 cranks forged or cast? what are they made out of? what kind of power can they take?

5.4L Trucks may or may not have a steel crank, Navigators most likely do(I haven't seen a Nav yet that doesn't have one).

The Ford GT has basically the same crank, except for the missing oil pump flats (dry sump only) that was considered a stress point.

Bullitt54 · 10-19-2009, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by na svt

There is a huge benefit by going to longer duration cams in 5.4. First, the 184 degree intake cams in 03/04 cobra, mach, marauder and aviator (and navigator) do not have enough duration for the much larger 5.4. A simple cobra cam swap does wonders in 03/04 cobras and it would do the same for a 5.4, even though the 5.4 needs yet another 20 degrees beyond what they offer.

The stock cams will work, but you will be leaving a lot of hp on the garage floor.

You can get 9 thread 03/04 heads for about $400 but the Navi heads will work fine, especially if you match the intake ports.

I guess I misunderstood the question, I thought we were talking about swapping to the Termie cams. The Nav cams are so close to them I didn't see the point.

bassman97 · 10-19-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalkr

im doing the 5.4 swap and im also installing a granatelli k member while the engine is out. i was thinking about modifying the k member to lower the engine so that i can use my 4.6 long tube headers. any info on this matter, can it be done, will it work

Don't use GMS parts, they're crap. Use the actual part it's based off of, the MM k-member. Also, pick up their spacers if you want to lower it.

*r3dn3ck* · 10-19-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigbigadoru

alright im sick of trying to find it. are the 5.4 cranks forged or cast? what are they made out of? what kind of power can they take?

You can tell on individual motors by looking at the casting line on the counterweights. Thin lines are cast. Thick lines (you'll know) are forged. As for the power they can take, more than street cars can dish out even with the cast ones. Unless you're planning to get nutty with the boost or nitrous I wouldn't spend much time considering this. You never hear of a 5.4 blowing a crank... mostly it's fragging rods or pistons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalkr

im doing the 5.4 swap and im also installing a granatelli k member while the engine is out. i was thinking about modifying the k member to lower the engine so that i can use my 4.6 long tube headers. any info on this matter, can it be done, will it work

The short answer is no and even if you did you'd hate the side effects. See below for more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt54

FYI, The 12.55 @114 was with the factory Bullitt tune. I have yet to run it with the new tune. Also that was on street tires.

I did a dyno run on the stock (KSG2) tune just for laughs and it was 403 ft/lbs rwtq, which is not that bad considering the A/F was going into the 8s.

After tuning, the rwtq jumped to 638 ft/lbs. I have the dyno sheet to prove it.

with a pig rich tune like that no wonder you made so much. The motor was at like half power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassman97

Don't use GMS parts, they're crap. Use the actual part it's based off of, the MM k-member. Also, pick up their spacers if you want to lower it.

The k-member spacers lower the k-member and subsequently the engine relative to the frame about 1/2" but that's not going to be enough to fit 4.6 longtubes and stacking them that high is a bad idea (requires other changes that are complex). You can't really lower the engine relative to the k-member much at all, there's dreadfully little clearance already.

Get the proper pipes from FTP and sell your existing headers to help defray the cost. Ditto on GMS... not a fan at all. Get the MM k-member. It's worth the extra cash.

stalkr · 10-19-2009, 01:54 PM

where do i get the ftp headers from and what is the price on them. do you recommand that i use the power pulleys that i had on my 4.6.

330CubeGt · 10-19-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigbigadoru

alright im sick of trying to find it. are the 5.4 cranks forged or cast? what are they made out of? what kind of power can they take?

Read the 5.4 Write-Up

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalkr

im doing the 5.4 swap and im also installing a granatelli k member while the engine is out. i was thinking about modifying the k member to lower the engine so that i can use my 4.6 long tube headers. any info on this matter, can it be done, will it work

Read the 5.4 Write-Up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt54

FYI, The 12.55@114 was with the factory Bullitt tune. I have yet to run it with the new tune. Also that was on street tires.

I did a dyno run on the stock (KSG2) tune just for laughs and it was 403 ft/lbs rwtq, which is not that bad considering the A/F was going into the 8s.

After tuning, the rwtq jumped to 638 ft/lbs. I have the dyno sheet to prove it.

Dyno sheets do nothing to me. Maybe you did, i just find it hard to believe at 10 PSI...

myillwillinc · 10-19-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalkr

where do i get the ftp headers from and what is the price on them. do you recommand that i use the power pulleys that i had on my 4.6.

call TJ @FTP (205-631-3871) http://www.ftperformance.net/
the headers cost a grand, he's working on a few sets now so call and reserve with a deposit to get some.

i'll be up there tomarrow to check out some stuff on my car.

sherminator · 10-19-2009, 07:03 PM

Post up the dyno sheets... there a thread for just 5.4 swappers and their dyno results/time slips??? Would be interesting to see how diff combos fair against the each other. Fyi I have 4 days till my longblock will be here... considering how someone else assymbled it... I'm tearing it back down and rechecking everything and having cams degree'd when it goes back together maybe ill cut my lower in two first and tack back up so I can weld it up while I wait

either way I'm so excited I can barely sleep!!!!

Nater · 10-20-2009, 12:53 AM

Found out that the Expedition motor is a 98....Thinking about yanking it anyways as a backup block....only 200 bones...

*r3dn3ck* · 10-20-2009, 11:08 AM

I'd take it and buy a cheap set of PI heads for it. You'll have a steel crank in all probability and the earlier blocks are lighter. 200 bucks you can't beat for a front cover, block, crank and timing set. Pitch the heads and be happy you got such a good deal.

stalkr: I don't like the underdrive crank pulley on the 5.4's. It just seems a little small for my taste even if they tend to be SFI rated. I'd stick with a stock 4.6 or 5.4 balancer and all the rest of the pullies. The power gain from them isn't enough to justify the cost. Sell em and get the 100 bucks.

EDIT: Got my crank pulley today. Did a little more work on vacuum setup. Got my oil cooler moved forward so I can put the FMHE's on.

cr4sh_0v3rl0ad · 10-20-2009, 12:10 PM

Ok so to avoid having to wade through 267 pages of posts... Im interested in a 5.4 swap. My questions are...

#1 Which is the easiest swap, SOHC or DOHC?
#2 Other than the motor, what else will i need to complete the swap?
#3 What year range Expedition/F-150's do i need to look for to get the transplant
motor from? (I know everyone says Navi motor, but they're generally about a
grand more expensive, why is this?)

liljojo4711 · 10-20-2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr4sh_0v3rl0ad

Ok so to avoid having to wade through 267 pages of posts... Im interested in a 5.4 swap. My questions are...

#1 Which is the easiest swap, SOHC or DOHC?
#2 Other than the motor, what else will i need to complete the swap?
#3 What year range Expedition/F-150's do i need to look for to get the transplant
motor from? (I know everyone says Navi motor, but they're generally about a
grand more expensive, why is this?)

#1. generally if u have a sohc engine currently the 5.4 2v will be easiest. if u start with a dohc engine the 5.4 4v will be easiest. this is also the cheapest route either way.

#2. read the 5.4 write-up

$3. 97-03 expedition/f-150 motors were 5.4 2v. also the econo vans from the same years had the 5.4 2v. the reason the navi motor is more expensive is because its a 5.4 4v motor.

cr4sh_0v3rl0ad · 10-20-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljojo4711

#1. generally if u have a sohc engine currently the 5.4 2v will be easiest. if u start with a dohc engine the 5.4 4v will be easiest. this is also the cheapest route either way.

#2. read the 5.4 write-up

$3. 97-03 expedition/f-150 motors were 5.4 2v. also the econo vans from the same years had the 5.4 2v. the reason the navi motor is more expensive is because its a 5.4 4v motor.

So in summary, I need to just go with an Expedition/F-150 2v then? I'm assuming most of my 4.6 stuff will bolt to that?

myillwillinc · 10-20-2009, 05:39 PM

*update*

hunter has informed me that he is selling his longtubes/x-pipe for 1100 obo. he has some issues with the shop that built his motor and it had to come back out. so he is going another direction with his. pm me if anyone is interested in the low mileage exhaust. it has maybe 250miles on it, the x-pipe is stainless also.

*r3dn3ck* · 10-21-2009, 07:39 AM

try to find a complete motor from a 00-03. All your accessories should bolt up. There's a write up sticky in this section that covers all this stuff in better detail.