Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Page 141

completenewb · 05-08-2008, 07:40 AM

Has the hard ball r intake been delayed? Because im sure it was supposed to be released by now...?

skylark · 05-08-2008, 08:02 AM

Guys, quick suggestions/opinions. Karkraft has bare aluminum 5.4 blocks with stock bores for $443. to my door. They also have rebuilt Lightening short blocks for $1895. plus shipping available. They have forged pistons but the stock powder rods and about 9.5:1 compression.
EBay has forged pistons(339grans/rings and forged rods/H-beam called ACE(?) for $788. With the bare block I could get forged rods and the higher compression I would like. However I would need more parts to comlete the motor such as the front cover/crank. I plan on getting a set of heads done whether even a set of the infamous Patriots to one of the better known shops that specialize in modulars. Looking for the ultimate interstate cruiser but I am hard on my vehicles so the forged rods could be a benefit even though the stock rods may be all that I would need!
This is going to be a project that as stated before I want to do correctly from the start.
I plan to do the 5.4 as cash allows and then get the Mustang to the shop and have them do the swap useing as many of the 4.6 pieces as possible.

Right now with the info I have given what are your opinions, bare aluminum or wait and get a short block but never know what they(karkraft) will have as they change inventory constantly. I am leaning towards the aluminum bare 5.3 block myself for the options it would allow and aluminum is lighter and my car is a convertible. Thanks and am sure pleased I found this thread and am even excited as I haven't done a motor in a few years and having a specific goal of as much torque as possible is nice too!

If you need to ask a question or 2 please do! THX, mark

r3dn3ck · 05-08-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Has the hard ball r intake been delayed? Because im sure it was supposed to be released by now...?

Yeah due to foundry issues. There was a little delay at the casting facility but they're supposed to be through that and working up again. I'll ping bob and find out if there's any updates. I kinda figure when one shows up at my doorstep, then we know they're released.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark

Guys, quick suggestions/opinions. Karkraft has bare aluminum 5.4 blocks with stock bores for $443

Those are 4.6L blocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark

They also have rebuilt Lightening short blocks for $1895. plus shipping available. They have forged pistons but the stock powder rods and about 9.5:1 compression.

That's a really good solution actually. You may want to check on the rod weight though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark

EBay has forged pistons(339grans/rings and forged rods/H-beam called ACE(?) for $788. With the bare block I could get forged rods and the higher compression I would like. However I would need more parts to comlete the motor such as the front cover/crank. I plan on getting a set of heads done whether even a set of the infamous Patriots to one of the better known shops that specialize in modulars. Looking for the ultimate interstate cruiser but I am hard on my vehicles so the forged rods could be a benefit even though the stock rods may be all that I would need!

Looks like they use a 690gram rod. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-4-5...spagenameZWD1V uses a 610 gram rod and you can get probe or Mahle slugs, it's about 50 bucks more but you save about 2lbs of rotating weight. I got that setup... so did several others.

I would find a donor motor for the front cover and all the little bits, have that rebuilt with whatever bits you like best, and bolt that bad boy up.

SleepingGT · 05-08-2008, 08:51 AM

http://forums.corral.net/forums/show...=905267&page=4

*949.99 is for 18 cc dish

i just ordered mine(11cc dish) from them for about 1100 total shipped

MMR rods with arp2000 bolts(really just a relabeled manley)
MMR Manley pistons .20 over with locks/pins/plasma moly rings etc

skylark · 05-08-2008, 08:58 AM

Thanks, I might have bought a 4.6 aluminum! A mind is a terrible thing to waste, especially your own!
How about one of the 5.4 blocks they have at www.karkraft.com Then I could add the forged parts that you referrenced me to(THANKS!) Not sure if stock bore pistons are available there but saving 2lbs of rotating weight is cool. I'd like to get this started with a block, possibly a motor from a yard depending on the cost.

I'll price out a running motor locally and then post that here to get opinions on what is the best way to go. It seems that the crank and front cover are the items I really neeed from a donor motor, right?

myillwillinc · 05-08-2008, 11:49 AM

well, lucky for me i pulled the headers to send to r3d. it seems that there are a couple cyl not sealing right. there was oil in the exhaust so what i heard was right about probe having crappy rings on thier forged pistons. ordering some plasma moly rings today and rering the motor while r3d has my headers to play with....

r3dn3ck · 05-08-2008, 04:30 PM

I bought total seal rings IIRC. Cost 100 bucks extra but appears to be worth it.

myillwillinc · 05-09-2008, 01:04 PM

how about a countdown for the intake????

can't wait.....

cdjnight · 05-09-2008, 05:19 PM

Anyone having ring seal problems...did you use deck plates for boring and honing?

Nightwing · 05-09-2008, 08:07 PM

dang the HPS intake is all i need to finish my build..
anyone interested in some adapter plates?

assasinator · 05-09-2008, 08:38 PM

because the mod motor bolts to the main bulkheads torque plates/deck plates are not necessary.

assasinator · 05-09-2008, 08:40 PM

so far in many years factory style plas-moly are cheap and work for thousands of miles.

of course total seal gapless are probably best. i just never use them.

skylark · 05-09-2008, 08:53 PM

Nightgwing, That intake will not match up to 3V heads will it? Aren't 2V, 3V and 4V heads all different as far as ports go? Or are they making an HPS for 3V's also?
I was going to say how about an SVO intake, the granddaddy of the Bullitt, dual 57mm throtle as you have now but a HUGE lower plenum that makes the Bullitt look.... well small! Had to make it smaller for the street and mass production as the SVO is for higher rpm's OR LARGER MOTORS! I did the coolant mod to it and could email a pic to somebody if they could post it here. I would like to have it in my sig but with webTV I can't do much.
If I go ahead with the 5.4 it would likely make an excellent intake for the motor if it fits with hiod clearance. I was told that the adapter plates raise the intake an inch or two, correct? How much, PM Me, Mark

96blackgt54 · 05-10-2008, 05:24 PM

Unless you can get adaptors to match the tear drop shape of the intake and heads, the clearance issue will be a problem. Perhaps you can get a special made set of adaptors or do some welding on the already made PI adaptors. If not, then you will have to add more adaptors or possibly do some port matching and welding, that may save some space.
JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW

SVO & NPI heads have a port shape that are close and look like a teardrop shape. As for the PI heads, the shape is more square. Does one flow better then the other? We can argue till we are blue in the face and get no where. SO don't start people!

03gtconv. · 05-10-2008, 06:59 PM

am very interested in doing this but i really dont have the time to read through all your threads. im in the usmc and only get 30min to use the computer. if u could tell me where to buy and cost it would help me out. I want the 5.4 4v and the up graded tko trans. i plan on buying all parts and taking it to a shop in socal or orange co. and watching there faces when i ask them to do it. o do any of u know a good shop in the area???

SleepingGT · 05-10-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtconv.

am very interested in doing this but i really dont have the time to read through all your threads. im in the usmc and only get 30min to use the computer. if u could tell me where to buy and cost it would help me out. I want the 5.4 4v and the up graded tko trans. i plan on buying all parts and taking it to a shop in socal or orange co. and watching there faces when i ask them to do it. o do any of u know a good shop in the area???

MMR sells turnkey DOHC 5.4 single and twin turbo race cars that run in the 7's
www.modularmustangracing.com or you could contact them to get pricing etc on a street version but for 5.4 4v they are the guys to ask

Turn Key Race Cars

2005+ Body Style, back half, 25.5 or 25.2 will run 7.30-7.90 Range $89,000 (outlaw or drag radial)

99-04 Body Style, back half, 25.5 or 25.2 will run 7.30-7.90 Range $79,000 (outlaw or drag radial)

99-04 Body Style, Factory style Suspension, 25.5 will run 7.70-8.10 Range $65,000 (drag radial)

All above cars feature single or twin turbo 5.4 DOHC powerplants, FAST fuel injection, Fast Touch screen

dash board/data logger and Air/liquid Intercoolers. CALL FOR DETAILS

skylark · 05-11-2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96blackgt54

Unless you can get adaptors to match the tear drop shape of the intake and heads, the clearance issue will be a problem. Perhaps you can get a special made set of adaptors or do some welding on the already made PI adaptors. If not, then you will have to add more adaptors or possibly do some port matching and welding, that may save some space.
JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW

SVO & NPI heads have a port shape that are close and look like a teardrop shape. As for the PI heads, the shape is more square. Does one flow better then the other? We can argue till we are blue in the face and get no where. SO don't start people!

Are you referring to me and the SVO intake? If so it has been port matched to PI heads and is on my '99 GT now. Probably could be matched better but I used it as I bought it and it seems to work fine. If I go 5.4 I will adapt it to the apapters themselves better. If the SVO or Bullitt has shown to be an issue I ouold like to know now if possible. I have always liked the Cobra R hood wioth the SVT/SVO scoop. Good for letting hot air out also.
Truth be known I would like to get another Conquest car from '88 or '89. Not a ricer but a MOPAR!

skylark · 05-11-2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtconv.

am very interested in doing this but i really dont have the time to read through all your threads. im in the usmc and only get 30min to use the computer. if u could tell me where to buy and cost it would help me out. I want the 5.4 4v and the up graded tko trans. i plan on buying all parts and taking it to a shop in socal or orange co. and watching there faces when i ask them to do it. o do any of u know a good shop in the area???

www.karkraft.com has complete motors, 5.4 4v and you would not need $80K nor would you have a race car but a very quick street car! $89K. I won't even sk

SleepingGT · 05-11-2008, 05:17 AM

going to the machine shop to drop everything off tomorrow

forged crank
mmr h beams with arp2000's
mmr manley pistons -11cc, 20 over
plasma rings
arp main/head studs
+1mm stainless valves
comp springs/retainers
ported heads
S-trim mongoose kit

only things i don't have yet
haven't decided on cams yet(probably tim's blower cams)
hopefully the HPS comes out in time so i can drop it straight in
longtubes...hoping i can modify my bbk's without too much trouble

03gtconv. · 05-11-2008, 11:28 AM

thanks for the reply. i dont have 80k so i just wanted a 5.4 and since im spending $$ i mine as well get the 4v. all i wanted was a cheap fuel injected motor to put the normal bolt ons underdrive pully, cai, plenum, t/b then when i get more $$$ heads cam and small turbo. i heard of adapter plates and dont really know what there for. anything else ill need

skylark · 05-11-2008, 02:23 PM

I really don't know what to do. The Mustang is mine as I would lose too much to sell. The adapter plates are to fit a 4.6 intake onto a 5.4 block. Speaking of which if the 5.4 sits about 1" taller exactly how mush extra height do the plates add? My SVO is like the Bullitt. Do I set a 3" piece of something soft on the intAKE AND SEE IF THE HOOD CLOSES!
I can bget that aluminum block but would have to do it this week as the sale ends friday, $440. shipped.
The plates and 8-bolt flexplate are probably about that much. I believe the rest of the mods would be labor for adapting the 4.6 oil pan and modifyingt the mid pipe, is that correct?
So the cost difference is whatever the yard wants for the 5.4 or wherever I can get one from. I cannot afford to get a $2000. block from karkraft at this time and the motor in the stang could last 2 years if driven easy, well not too hard!
What are the stock cam specs of the 5.4, anyone? How about stock 5.4 rod/piston weights?
Since I would be farming out all of the labor I need to have this done correctly. Do I have it correctly that the thread starter has a Comp 270 in his car, Colin, is that correct?
The idea of a lot more torque at 1000rpm's less than a 4.6 and the extra 50 cubes for power could allow that I remove the 4.10's for the 3.27's and have a motor that is quicker than what I have now that gets better mileage as the torquw would likely make up for the extra cubes.Just look at new stangs and the GT mileage is just a couple of MPG more than the V6's due to the extra power/torque moving the 3600lbs. that much easier.
I need some opinions from guys who hae done this mod, swap in a 5.4. I either act this week or wait until winter and see what happens with the price of fuel and other factors that are certainly out of my control. Getting the 4.6 aluminum is something I could do this week.
Really it seems a wash financially, block vrs. adapters/flexplate are about nequal, then it is the cost of the 5.4 and having my car down for some time as the 4.6 is pulled and taken apart for the crank and other parts to build the 4.6 or have a 5.4 ready to drop into the car?
I sure wish I could have a ride in a 5.4 NA and see what the difference between a 4.6 and a 5.4 is like! GUYS?

View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Not swapping. Think you guys are nuts for trying.	10	3.66%
Not swapping but find the topic interesting.	73	26.74%
Thinking about doing the swap but not in the next year.	77	28.21%
Definitely going to do the swap in the next year or so.	57	20.88%
Doing it now. Looking for an engine or awaiting delivery.	20	7.33%
Doing it now. Already bought an engine.	24	8.79%
Done. Got my 5.4L and showin my tail lights to camaro's every day.	12	4.40%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

05-08-2008, 08:51 AM	#4204 (permalink)
SleepingGT Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 90	http://forums.corral.net/forums/show...=905267&page=4 949.99 is for 18 cc dish i just ordered mine(11cc dish) from them for about 1100 total shipped MMR rods with arp2000 bolts(really just a relabeled manley) MMR Manley pistons .20 over with locks/pins/plasma moly rings etc Last edited by SleepingGT : 05-08-2008 at 08:53 AM.*

05-08-2008, 11:49 AM	#4206 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 529	well, lucky for me i pulled the headers to send to r3d. it seems that there are a couple cyl not sealing right. there was oil in the exhaust so what i heard was right about probe having crappy rings on thier forged pistons. ordering some plasma moly rings today and rering the motor while r3d has my headers to play with.... __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

05-08-2008, 04:30 PM	#4207 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,513	I bought total seal rings IIRC. Cost 100 bucks extra but appears to be worth it. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

05-09-2008, 01:04 PM	#4208 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 529	how about a countdown for the intake???? can't wait..... __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

05-08-2008, 07:40 AM	#4201 (permalink)
completenewb Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 71	Has the hard ball r intake been delayed? Because im sure it was supposed to be released by now...?

05-08-2008, 08:02 AM	#4202 (permalink)
skylark Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 33	Guys, quick suggestions/opinions. Karkraft has bare aluminum 5.4 blocks with stock bores for $443. to my door. They also have rebuilt Lightening short blocks for $1895. plus shipping available. They have forged pistons but the stock powder rods and about 9.5:1 compression. EBay has forged pistons(339grans/rings and forged rods/H-beam called ACE(?) for $788. With the bare block I could get forged rods and the higher compression I would like. However I would need more parts to comlete the motor such as the front cover/crank. I plan on getting a set of heads done whether even a set of the infamous Patriots to one of the better known shops that specialize in modulars. Looking for the ultimate interstate cruiser but I am hard on my vehicles so the forged rods could be a benefit even though the stock rods may be all that I would need! This is going to be a project that as stated before I want to do correctly from the start. I plan to do the 5.4 as cash allows and then get the Mustang to the shop and have them do the swap useing as many of the 4.6 pieces as possible. Right now with the info I have given what are your opinions, bare aluminum or wait and get a short block but never know what they(karkraft) will have as they change inventory constantly. I am leaning towards the aluminum bare 5.3 block myself for the options it would allow and aluminum is lighter and my car is a convertible. Thanks and am sure pleased I found this thread and am even excited as I haven't done a motor in a few years and having a specific goal of as much torque as possible is nice too! If you need to ask a question or 2 please do! THX, mark

05-08-2008, 08:58 AM	#4205 (permalink)
skylark Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 33	Thanks, I might have bought a 4.6 aluminum! A mind is a terrible thing to waste, especially your own! How about one of the 5.4 blocks they have at www.karkraft.com Then I could add the forged parts that you referrenced me to(THANKS!) Not sure if stock bore pistons are available there but saving 2lbs of rotating weight is cool. I'd like to get this started with a block, possibly a motor from a yard depending on the cost. I'll price out a running motor locally and then post that here to get opinions on what is the best way to go. It seems that the crank and front cover are the items I really neeed from a donor motor, right?

05-09-2008, 05:19 PM	#4209 (permalink)
cdjnight Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 108	Anyone having ring seal problems...did you use deck plates for boring and honing? __________________ Momentum is everything till you drive off a cliff! 2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8(LOL), Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Precision T63, 42lb injectors, Flowmaster 3.5" Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Kenne Bell BAP, LM1 wideband driving factory computer, Best e.t before it through a rod in the 4.6L, 8.33@90mph in the 1/8th. on factory tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaJ2yQH1Ezs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1hiMJy3ezk

05-09-2008, 08:07 PM	#4210 (permalink)
Nightwing Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kingsport Posts: 19	dang the HPS intake is all i need to finish my build.. anyone interested in some adapter plates?

05-09-2008, 08:38 PM	#4211 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 101	because the mod motor bolts to the main bulkheads torque plates/deck plates are not necessary. __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

05-09-2008, 08:40 PM	#4212 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 101	so far in many years factory style plas-moly are cheap and work for thousands of miles. of course total seal gapless are probably best. i just never use them. __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

05-09-2008, 08:53 PM	#4213 (permalink)
skylark Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 33	Nightgwing, That intake will not match up to 3V heads will it? Aren't 2V, 3V and 4V heads all different as far as ports go? Or are they making an HPS for 3V's also? I was going to say how about an SVO intake, the granddaddy of the Bullitt, dual 57mm throtle as you have now but a HUGE lower plenum that makes the Bullitt look.... well small! Had to make it smaller for the street and mass production as the SVO is for higher rpm's OR LARGER MOTORS! I did the coolant mod to it and could email a pic to somebody if they could post it here. I would like to have it in my sig but with webTV I can't do much. If I go ahead with the 5.4 it would likely make an excellent intake for the motor if it fits with hiod clearance. I was told that the adapter plates raise the intake an inch or two, correct? How much, PM Me, Mark Last edited by skylark : 05-09-2008 at 08:58 PM.

05-10-2008, 05:24 PM	#4214 (permalink)
96blackgt54 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lawrenceburg,KY Posts: 111	Unless you can get adaptors to match the tear drop shape of the intake and heads, the clearance issue will be a problem. Perhaps you can get a special made set of adaptors or do some welding on the already made PI adaptors. If not, then you will have to add more adaptors or possibly do some port matching and welding, that may save some space. JUST IN CASE YOU DON'T KNOW SVO & NPI heads have a port shape that are close and look like a teardrop shape. As for the PI heads, the shape is more square. Does one flow better then the other? We can argue till we are blue in the face and get no where. SO don't start people! Last edited by 96blackgt54 : 05-10-2008 at 05:30 PM.

05-10-2008, 06:59 PM	#4215 (permalink)
03gtconv. Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4	am very interested in doing this but i really dont have the time to read through all your threads. im in the usmc and only get 30min to use the computer. if u could tell me where to buy and cost it would help me out. I want the 5.4 4v and the up graded tko trans. i plan on buying all parts and taking it to a shop in socal or orange co. and watching there faces when i ask them to do it. o do any of u know a good shop in the area???

05-11-2008, 05:17 AM	#4219 (permalink)
SleepingGT Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 90	going to the machine shop to drop everything off tomorrow forged crank mmr h beams with arp2000's mmr manley pistons -11cc, 20 over plasma rings arp main/head studs +1mm stainless valves comp springs/retainers ported heads S-trim mongoose kit only things i don't have yet haven't decided on cams yet(probably tim's blower cams) hopefully the HPS comes out in time so i can drop it straight in longtubes...hoping i can modify my bbk's without too much trouble Last edited by SleepingGT : 05-11-2008 at 05:43 AM.

05-11-2008, 11:28 AM	#4220 (permalink)
03gtconv. Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4	thanks for the reply. i dont have 80k so i just wanted a 5.4 and since im spending $$ i mine as well get the 4v. all i wanted was a cheap fuel injected motor to put the normal bolt ons underdrive pully, cai, plenum, t/b then when i get more $$$ heads cam and small turbo. i heard of adapter plates and dont really know what there for. anything else ill need

05-11-2008, 02:23 PM	#4221 (permalink)
skylark Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 33	5.4 or 4.6? I really don't know what to do. The Mustang is mine as I would lose too much to sell. The adapter plates are to fit a 4.6 intake onto a 5.4 block. Speaking of which if the 5.4 sits about 1" taller exactly how mush extra height do the plates add? My SVO is like the Bullitt. Do I set a 3" piece of something soft on the intAKE AND SEE IF THE HOOD CLOSES! I can bget that aluminum block but would have to do it this week as the sale ends friday, $440. shipped. The plates and 8-bolt flexplate are probably about that much. I believe the rest of the mods would be labor for adapting the 4.6 oil pan and modifyingt the mid pipe, is that correct? So the cost difference is whatever the yard wants for the 5.4 or wherever I can get one from. I cannot afford to get a $2000. block from karkraft at this time and the motor in the stang could last 2 years if driven easy, well not too hard! What are the stock cam specs of the 5.4, anyone? How about stock 5.4 rod/piston weights? Since I would be farming out all of the labor I need to have this done correctly. Do I have it correctly that the thread starter has a Comp 270 in his car, Colin, is that correct? The idea of a lot more torque at 1000rpm's less than a 4.6 and the extra 50 cubes for power could allow that I remove the 4.10's for the 3.27's and have a motor that is quicker than what I have now that gets better mileage as the torquw would likely make up for the extra cubes.Just look at new stangs and the GT mileage is just a couple of MPG more than the V6's due to the extra power/torque moving the 3600lbs. that much easier. I need some opinions from guys who hae done this mod, swap in a 5.4. I either act this week or wait until winter and see what happens with the price of fuel and other factors that are certainly out of my control. Getting the 4.6 aluminum is something I could do this week. Really it seems a wash financially, block vrs. adapters/flexplate are about nequal, then it is the cost of the 5.4 and having my car down for some time as the 4.6 is pulled and taken apart for the crank and other parts to build the 4.6 or have a 5.4 ready to drop into the car? I sure wish I could have a ride in a 5.4 NA and see what the difference between a 4.6 and a 5.4 is like! GUYS?