Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Page 137

assasinator · 04-20-2008, 07:53 PM

stock springs will work to 6900 with moderate cam

bassman97 · 04-20-2008, 08:28 PM

Stock manifolds aren't tuned. If they were, all the primaries would be roughly the same size and much longer. Stock manifolds, no matter how good they are from the factory, are nothing more than cast iron logs. The only semi-decent ones were the ones on the old 5.0s. The new 4.6 3V pieces are no different.

WhiteStang97 · 04-21-2008, 10:51 AM

So whats the word on anyone producing an intake for this swap??
i've heard hps is coming out with one as well as trickflow....are any of them out yet??

r3dn3ck · 04-21-2008, 11:01 AM

Trickflow has one for a 4.6... they're not going to play 5.4 in all probability. The 4.6 manifold barely sells well enough to justify it existing. HPS's intake is in production. THe first units have yet to ship to customers but I'm expecting the first one to be delivered to my house pretty soon.

assasinator · 04-23-2008, 03:32 PM

i'm sorry, but 3v manifolds are pulse tuned and make every bit as much as shorties. look at a pair. they are nothing like logs.

assasinator · 04-23-2008, 03:33 PM

if they are no good then how did ed olin rev to 6900 with them. he told me himself(i take his word for it).

bassman97 · 04-23-2008, 03:41 PM

They may be tuned but they aren't tuned for anything down low. This is why long tubes still make 10-15 hp over them. Remember, a properly tuned header has a proper collector, proper length primaries for the rpm range, and correct cross section or step. Stock manifolds have tiny primary lengths, making them useful for only high rpms since on the street, 30-35" length primaries are ideal. In addition, stock manifolds do not have anything close to a proper collector design since it's way too short and probably doesn't have a proper merge cone in it.

cdjnight · 04-23-2008, 07:02 PM

Had an "OH SHIT THE other day" Engine started leaking oil out the back. Had to pull the tranny (AUTO and HEAVY) come to find out 30 year engine builder wasnt too carefull in installing the rear main seal. After he replaced it we where comparing the old new one to the new new one and noticed the 1st one didnt have a chamfer to ease the install, Not sure what brand that was, but the newest one is a Felpro and seems way better made, and easier to install.

cardude · 04-23-2008, 10:10 PM

hey i read a question in muscle mustangs fast fords asking how much intercooled boost a stock internal 4.6 can handle. they said 14lbs. of boost and that sounds about right to me because my friends car has been makeing that amount of boost non intercooled.....hell its not even dyno tuned and its been like that for a while.

well i was gonna run 8 lbs of boost and a 55 shot but now im starting to wonder if the 5.4 can handle the same amount of boost. if so i was gonna do that and leave the nitrous off. i think it should since they both have the same horsepower from the factory. just the 5.4 is as we all know TORQUEY.

so my question is if is has a very good tune do u think a stock internal 5.4 will live for a lil while? also since it is a bigger motor would it take a different size pulley to make the 14 pounds on the 5.4 compared to a 4.6? also what size pulley do u think would get me closest to it.

also it would be for a procharger p-isc

JScottGT · 04-24-2008, 06:38 AM

Seeing as centrifugal superchargers make boost as a function of RPM, you would need a pulley to spin the s/c faster so it can make max boost at 5500 rpm instead of 6500 rpm. With a proper tune, there should be no reason why a 5.4 couldnt handle boost as well as the 4.6 does, even with stock internals.

r3dn3ck · 04-24-2008, 07:48 AM

3v manifolds look better than your typical cast manifolds externally but I haven't had any in my hot little hands to see what the insides look like. Anyone want to take some incredibly large pics for me to examine and I'll chime in.

WhiteStang97 · 04-24-2008, 09:33 AM

these main studs will fit the 5.4 correct??
it says its for a 4.6 and only the dohc...just wondering if it would fit my 5.4 2v....if not can someone point me in the right direction...

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

WhiteStang97 · 04-24-2008, 09:56 AM

another question for you guys...
i have romeo heads that i am going to put on my 5.4
all 5.4's come with windsor heads correct?
what will i have to do to put my romeos on the 5.4?

myillwillinc · 04-24-2008, 10:08 AM

the arp head studs will fit 4.6 or 5.4

r3dn3ck · 04-24-2008, 10:12 AM

You need the 2v main stud kit.

The head stud kit will work with any of the modulars. To put the romeos on you'll need to swap a couple bolts from your old front cover to the new one for the swap. Don't trip. It's nothin big.

Main Stud Kit:
ARP-156-5401 2v modulars. I think that will support a windage tray with an add-on kit. Call summit.

WhiteStang97 · 04-24-2008, 10:19 AM

yea i have the 2v head stud kit...but now i need the main stud kit...
i didn't know that there was a difference between 2v and 4v main studs??

bassman97 · 04-24-2008, 10:23 AM

That's because 4V had 6 bolt mains vs. 4 bolt mains.

r3dn3ck · 04-24-2008, 12:51 PM

even worse, the 5.4's are technically a 6-bolt main but the side bolts are re-usable and the outboard dowels aren't really a fastener so much as a locator so the 5.4's end up classed just like 2v 4.6's as 2-bolt main for the purposes of buying main cap fasteners. I have the ones I linked in my motor.

assasinator · 04-24-2008, 06:15 PM

this is a bunch of pics, but i was illustrating to another 5.4 3v swapper months ago where to cut the 5.4 3v manifolds and 4.6 3v's and cast-iron stick weld them back together. i included all of the tedious procedures for stick welding cast iron. i made a perfect fitting part.

Not Nalb · 04-24-2008, 11:29 PM

AHHH and DONE! i haven't read that much since high school.

fist thing is to thank r3d, assain, myill and the other OG's that have done the hard work for us and have made this swap their baby. you should feel proud knowing every 5.4 swap from now on is due to your work.

now for questions. im doing a 5.4 3v into a 99gt.
does my auto 99 winsor have an 8 bolt flexplate?
is MMR really making 3v adapter plates for the 4.6 3v intake or do i have to use the truck intake?

Bill, we spoke on the phone this week, and i think you said about to use a 4.6 3v exh manifold on the driver side and massaging the firewall to make the room for the exh. is this correct?
also do i HAVE to use a 4.6 3v oil pump, tank and pick up? or can i use the 4.6 2v or 5.4 3v stuff. like the 5.4 3v pump and 4.6 2v tank and pick up? i know you said something about the PSI on the 5.4 being high but i dont remember exactly.
whats the best (most hp and tq) cam to get for the 3v 5.4 and keep the stock springs? part #?

i should be up and running by the end of june. this is because of the support of this thread. THANK YOU!

JScottGT · 04-25-2008, 06:20 AM

Welcome and good luck with the swap. The 3V heads flow so much better than the 2V heads, so you are in for some good power to be made. I believe Comp has a couple decent grinds for the 3V heads, but I am not as familiar with them as I am with the 2V cams. I'd be willing to bet there are similar duration specs available and they should produce similar results. Just remember that the 5.4 has such a longer stroke, it really craves more duration to allow for the cylinder to fill with each intake stroke. And similarly, the advertised power bands for the 4.6 will be biased to roughly 1000 RPM lower on the 5.4. So a cam that makes peak power at 6.5k on the 4.6 will peak between 5-5.5k on the 5.4... r3d can probably answer about the availablility of adapter plates on the 3V stuff better than I can. Keep us posted on your progress.

Not Nalb · 04-25-2008, 10:17 AM

UPDATE on 5.4 3v to 4.6 3v intake. MMR is still designing them. i called them today and they do not have a time or price yet. they have my name and #. hopefully i get a pair. so i know page 97 or so it was said they made them but not yet. i talked to RR yesterday and they dont have 3v adapters eithers. RR did say they have HEARD of guys using the 4v
adapters and i guess porting them out to fit the 3v.. is this a true option?

heres my build so far:
5.4 3v LB from a 05'
4.6 3v intake
stock 03-04 ford oval TB
4.6 3v exh manifolds
stock 99 auto trans
3.27 gears ( for now, will see if these do good or not)
stock 3v heads, upgrade to st2 or higher cams.
upgrade springs but only if NEEDED.
stock 99 pcm and harness.

questions..

how do i lengthen the throttle cable to reach the new location? im very picky about this part, cause its a safety issue.
will the stock 99 injectors work for now and if not what size do i need?
i want my peak HP around 6000 rpm's tops. i DD this car and don't see 5500 very offen now as it is. a lower reving engine is more streetable and fun to me. also 120+ is VERY rare for me. i am 100% against street racing and dont do it. so with that info what do you guru's think a good cam will be for me( think 3v)?

r3dn3ck · 04-25-2008, 11:06 AM

I'd look for a cam in the stage 2 range, don't bother stopping at stage 1, there's some tq you can trade for hp. Even a really ratty stage 3 type cam is streetable on the 5.4 (makes the car a little cold blooded though). Throttle cable would be a question for 3v2000gt. You'll want 24lb/hr injectors to start with. If you have yellow tops those are 19lb and are too small for a 3v application IMO but they'll work up to about 300rwhp.

View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Not swapping. You guys are nuts for trying.	0	0%
Not swapping but find the topic interesting.	0	0%
Thinking about doing the swap but not in the next year.	0	0%
Definitely going to do the swap in the next year or so.	0	0%
Doing it now. Looking for an engine or awaiting delivery.	0	0%
Doing it now. Already bought an engine.	0	0%
Done. Got my 5.4L and showin my tail lights to camaro's every day.	0	0%
Screw 5.4, I'm going 6.8L V10	0	0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

04-20-2008, 07:53 PM	#4081 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108	stock springs will work to 6900 with moderate cam __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

04-21-2008, 11:01 AM	#4084 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	Trickflow has one for a 4.6... they're not going to play 5.4 in all probability. The 4.6 manifold barely sells well enough to justify it existing. HPS's intake is in production. THe first units have yet to ship to customers but I'm expecting the first one to be delivered to my house pretty soon. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

04-23-2008, 03:32 PM	#4085 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108	i'm sorry, but 3v manifolds are pulse tuned and make every bit as much as shorties. look at a pair. they are nothing like logs. __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

04-23-2008, 03:33 PM	#4086 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108	if they are no good then how did ed olin rev to 6900 with them. he told me himself(i take his word for it). __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

04-20-2008, 08:28 PM	#4082 (permalink)
bassman97 blank Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 1,485	Stock manifolds aren't tuned. If they were, all the primaries would be roughly the same size and much longer. Stock manifolds, no matter how good they are from the factory, are nothing more than cast iron logs. The only semi-decent ones were the ones on the old 5.0s. The new 4.6 3V pieces are no different.

04-21-2008, 10:51 AM	#4083 (permalink)
WhiteStang97 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	So whats the word on anyone producing an intake for this swap?? i've heard hps is coming out with one as well as trickflow....are any of them out yet??

04-23-2008, 03:41 PM	#4087 (permalink)
bassman97 blank Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 1,485	They may be tuned but they aren't tuned for anything down low. This is why long tubes still make 10-15 hp over them. Remember, a properly tuned header has a proper collector, proper length primaries for the rpm range, and correct cross section or step. Stock manifolds have tiny primary lengths, making them useful for only high rpms since on the street, 30-35" length primaries are ideal. In addition, stock manifolds do not have anything close to a proper collector design since it's way too short and probably doesn't have a proper merge cone in it.

04-23-2008, 07:02 PM	#4088 (permalink)
cdjnight Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 117	Had an "OH SHIT THE other day" Engine started leaking oil out the back. Had to pull the tranny (AUTO and HEAVY) come to find out 30 year engine builder wasnt too carefull in installing the rear main seal. After he replaced it we where comparing the old new one to the new new one and noticed the 1st one didnt have a chamfer to ease the install, Not sure what brand that was, but the newest one is a Felpro and seems way better made, and easier to install. __________________ Momentum is everything till you drive off a cliff! 2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8(LOL), Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Precision T63, 42lb injectors, Flowmaster 3.5" Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Kenne Bell BAP,BG Mighty Sumo pump, MSD MOD6, LM1 wideband, Best e.t, 7.67@92mph in the 1/8th. on MT drag radials. No dyno tune yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaJ2yQH1Ezs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1hiMJy3ezk

04-23-2008, 10:10 PM	#4089 (permalink)
cardude Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 30	hey i read a question in muscle mustangs fast fords asking how much intercooled boost a stock internal 4.6 can handle. they said 14lbs. of boost and that sounds about right to me because my friends car has been makeing that amount of boost non intercooled.....hell its not even dyno tuned and its been like that for a while. well i was gonna run 8 lbs of boost and a 55 shot but now im starting to wonder if the 5.4 can handle the same amount of boost. if so i was gonna do that and leave the nitrous off. i think it should since they both have the same horsepower from the factory. just the 5.4 is as we all know TORQUEY. so my question is if is has a very good tune do u think a stock internal 5.4 will live for a lil while? also since it is a bigger motor would it take a different size pulley to make the 14 pounds on the 5.4 compared to a 4.6? also what size pulley do u think would get me closest to it. also it would be for a procharger p-isc

04-24-2008, 06:38 AM	#4090 (permalink)
JScottGT Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 60	Seeing as centrifugal superchargers make boost as a function of RPM, you would need a pulley to spin the s/c faster so it can make max boost at 5500 rpm instead of 6500 rpm. With a proper tune, there should be no reason why a 5.4 couldnt handle boost as well as the 4.6 does, even with stock internals. __________________ 2000 Mustang GT (aka "The Frankenstang") - 5.4L Power - Comp XE270AH-13 Cams - 261rwhp/330rwtq - 2001 Cobra IRS - 3.55:1 - 2000 Cobra R Rear Springs & Dampers - 2001 Bullitt Front Springs & Dampers - 2001 Bullitt Front Brakes www.jscottgt.com

04-24-2008, 07:48 AM	#4091 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	3v manifolds look better than your typical cast manifolds externally but I haven't had any in my hot little hands to see what the insides look like. Anyone want to take some incredibly large pics for me to examine and I'll chime in. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

04-24-2008, 09:33 AM	#4092 (permalink)
WhiteStang97 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	these main studs will fit the 5.4 correct?? it says its for a 4.6 and only the dohc...just wondering if it would fit my 5.4 2v....if not can someone point me in the right direction... http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku

04-24-2008, 09:56 AM	#4093 (permalink)
WhiteStang97 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	another question for you guys... i have romeo heads that i am going to put on my 5.4 all 5.4's come with windsor heads correct? what will i have to do to put my romeos on the 5.4?

04-24-2008, 10:08 AM	#4094 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 651	the arp head studs will fit 4.6 or 5.4 __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

04-24-2008, 10:12 AM	#4095 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	You need the 2v main stud kit. The head stud kit will work with any of the modulars. To put the romeos on you'll need to swap a couple bolts from your old front cover to the new one for the swap. Don't trip. It's nothin big. Main Stud Kit: ARP-156-5401 2v modulars. I think that will support a windage tray with an add-on kit. Call summit. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

04-24-2008, 10:19 AM	#4096 (permalink)
WhiteStang97 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19	yea i have the 2v head stud kit...but now i need the main stud kit... i didn't know that there was a difference between 2v and 4v main studs??

04-24-2008, 10:23 AM	#4097 (permalink)
bassman97 blank Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North Jersey Posts: 1,485	That's because 4V had 6 bolt mains vs. 4 bolt mains.

04-24-2008, 12:51 PM	#4098 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	even worse, the 5.4's are technically a 6-bolt main but the side bolts are re-usable and the outboard dowels aren't really a fastener so much as a locator so the 5.4's end up classed just like 2v 4.6's as 2-bolt main for the purposes of buying main cap fasteners. I have the ones I linked in my motor. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

04-24-2008, 06:15 PM	#4099 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108	this is a bunch of pics, but i was illustrating to another 5.4 3v swapper months ago where to cut the 5.4 3v manifolds and 4.6 3v's and cast-iron stick weld them back together. i included all of the tedious procedures for stick welding cast iron. i made a perfect fitting part. __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq. Last edited by assasinator : 04-24-2008 at 06:19 PM.

04-24-2008, 11:29 PM	#4100 (permalink)
Not Nalb Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 16	AHHH and DONE! i haven't read that much since high school. fist thing is to thank r3d, assain, myill and the other OG's that have done the hard work for us and have made this swap their baby. you should feel proud knowing every 5.4 swap from now on is due to your work. now for questions. im doing a 5.4 3v into a 99gt. does my auto 99 winsor have an 8 bolt flexplate? is MMR really making 3v adapter plates for the 4.6 3v intake or do i have to use the truck intake? Bill, we spoke on the phone this week, and i think you said about to use a 4.6 3v exh manifold on the driver side and massaging the firewall to make the room for the exh. is this correct? also do i HAVE to use a 4.6 3v oil pump, tank and pick up? or can i use the 4.6 2v or 5.4 3v stuff. like the 5.4 3v pump and 4.6 2v tank and pick up? i know you said something about the PSI on the 5.4 being high but i dont remember exactly. whats the best (most hp and tq) cam to get for the 3v 5.4 and keep the stock springs? part #? i should be up and running by the end of june. this is because of the support of this thread. THANK YOU! Last edited by Not Nalb : 04-24-2008 at 11:48 PM.

04-25-2008, 06:20 AM	#4101 (permalink)
JScottGT Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 60	Welcome and good luck with the swap. The 3V heads flow so much better than the 2V heads, so you are in for some good power to be made. I believe Comp has a couple decent grinds for the 3V heads, but I am not as familiar with them as I am with the 2V cams. I'd be willing to bet there are similar duration specs available and they should produce similar results. Just remember that the 5.4 has such a longer stroke, it really craves more duration to allow for the cylinder to fill with each intake stroke. And similarly, the advertised power bands for the 4.6 will be biased to roughly 1000 RPM lower on the 5.4. So a cam that makes peak power at 6.5k on the 4.6 will peak between 5-5.5k on the 5.4... r3d can probably answer about the availablility of adapter plates on the 3V stuff better than I can. Keep us posted on your progress. __________________ 2000 Mustang GT (aka "The Frankenstang") - 5.4L Power - Comp XE270AH-13 Cams - 261rwhp/330rwtq - 2001 Cobra IRS - 3.55:1 - 2000 Cobra R Rear Springs & Dampers - 2001 Bullitt Front Springs & Dampers - 2001 Bullitt Front Brakes www.jscottgt.com

04-25-2008, 10:17 AM	#4102 (permalink)
Not Nalb Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 16	UPDATE on 5.4 3v to 4.6 3v intake. MMR is still designing them. i called them today and they do not have a time or price yet. they have my name and #. hopefully i get a pair. so i know page 97 or so it was said they made them but not yet. i talked to RR yesterday and they dont have 3v adapters eithers. RR did say they have HEARD of guys using the 4v adapters and i guess porting them out to fit the 3v.. is this a true option? heres my build so far: 5.4 3v LB from a 05' 4.6 3v intake stock 03-04 ford oval TB 4.6 3v exh manifolds stock 99 auto trans 3.27 gears ( for now, will see if these do good or not) stock 3v heads, upgrade to st2 or higher cams. upgrade springs but only if NEEDED. stock 99 pcm and harness. questions.. how do i lengthen the throttle cable to reach the new location? im very picky about this part, cause its a safety issue. will the stock 99 injectors work for now and if not what size do i need? i want my peak HP around 6000 rpm's tops. i DD this car and don't see 5500 very offen now as it is. a lower reving engine is more streetable and fun to me. also 120+ is VERY rare for me. i am 100% against street racing and dont do it. so with that info what do you guru's think a good cam will be for me( think 3v)?

04-25-2008, 11:06 AM	#4103 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,008	I'd look for a cam in the stage 2 range, don't bother stopping at stage 1, there's some tq you can trade for hp. Even a really ratty stage 3 type cam is streetable on the 5.4 (makes the car a little cold blooded though). Throttle cable would be a question for 3v2000gt. You'll want 24lb/hr injectors to start with. If you have yellow tops those are 19lb and are too small for a 3v application IMO but they'll work up to about 300rwhp. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page