Mustang Accessories

singlesupra · 01-11-2008, 09:02 PM

After reinstalling the clutch 3 times, Ive come to the conclusion that the PP is just FUCKED to put it nicely. Brand new spec stage 2. Ive installed around 30 clutches or so in mustangs and never had an issue, so Im sure the install is correct. The clutch disk is fine so it kinda rules it out. Flywheel is fine. All engagement parts have been replaced and adjusted correctly.
I have a 10.5" king cobra PP with spec stage 2 disk on the way. Gonna install it and go. However, after driving the car for a bit(hoping it would wear enough to disengage completly) the car feels VERY strong.

completenewb · 01-11-2008, 10:12 PM

Not questioning your ability but perhaps an oversight on the install?
Maybe the disk is backwords? Flat side against fly wheel right? Just a thought-

singlesupra · 01-11-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Not questioning your ability but perhaps an oversight on the install?
Maybe the disk is backwords? Flat side against fly wheel right? Just a thought-

Yes, install was correct. At first thought I thought "maybe just maybe" I botched the install, pulled it all back out and done it again. Same thing. Figured Il give it one more shot. Same thing. Installed it 3 times the same way I have done 30+ clutches and still same results. People at spec were about useless.

SIDENOTE: I have read stories on the net of people putting disks and flywheels/flexplates on backwards. HOW? The flywheel is dished and the disk will not go on but one way. I dont get how someone can mess up something that should be impossible.

completenewb · 01-11-2008, 11:47 PM

Never had my clutch apart on my 4.6 but id assume a clutch is a clutch and on my old 5.0 the proper way to put in the clutch was less then obvious for the disk ---well can be overlooked----
I b D Flat side of disk facing pressureplate
' ' '
Flywheel disk pressure plate

Not I d D
' ' '
Flywheel disk pressure plate

The little "Lip" on the disk in the center where it sticks up an inch is not supposed to fit into the hole in flywheel where the flywheel is bolted to the block is what im saying. The flat surface goes on flywheel surface and the side that sticks out an inch goes pressure plate side. I have made the mistake before but never tried running it dont remember at what point the light bulb came on but i do remember going UGH i cant believe i did that!.

Hope the diagram made sence:P

Its probably not the problem you have but hey maybe someone that has never done a clutch install can get some clarification on how to's from the post:P

Btw redneck its awesome you been keeping with this after 100s of pages nice to see. I read them all been following for a couple months now just decided to post.

I emailed Bob Hardin at hps about intake he told me 6-8 weeks and a ticket price around $795.
If this thing puts out decent power i will probably be doing the swap after long tubes are available cant do it before as my supercharger will be suffocated.

Intercooled vortech stock block long tubes ceramic coated high flow catted h pipe dynomax mufflers (hey i like em:P) Custom Cai lightning maf installed by davenport racing
dyno'd at 418 rwhp 408tq
Before Headers and high flowing h pipe install and sc i dyno'd something like 230 rwhp
No boost guage but i believe its pullied the factory h/o kit 9-10 pounds:P
Something worked really well in the combo they said its far more then they have experianced in the past with other installs.

Basically im pondering a forged 5.0 aluminum stroker or the 5.4 forged if the intake and headers work well....I want to run 14 psi and possibly methanol injection

Thoughts on the different engines?

Will longjevity be better in the 5.4 as its not a stroker?
I live in canada so gas is a big issue at 110 a litre:P will the 5.4 be much worse on gas?
I go to the track usually 1s a week in season so weight is an issue too.
Will a 5.4 4v stuff in? No intake options though right?
Will ported 2v heads flow enough under boost? they seem to now but i have not turned up the wick yet either:P

TurboX2 · 01-12-2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakin_bakin

ya, those darn valve covers are PITA,

Try doing a cam swap with the engine in the car.....

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Btw redneck its awesome you been keeping with this after 100s of pages nice to see. I read them all been following for a couple months now just decided to post.

Thanks man. At this point I'm only here to help others. My project is about done. Gotta give something back to the forums though... they helped me finish my dream.

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

I emailed Bob Hardin at hps about intake he told me 6-8 weeks and a ticket price around $795.
If this thing puts out decent power i will probably be doing the swap after long tubes are available cant do it before as my supercharger will be suffocated.

Intercooled vortech stock block long tubes ceramic coated high flow catted h pipe dynomax mufflers (hey i like em:P) Custom Cai lightning maf installed by davenport racing
dyno'd at 418 rwhp 408tq
Before Headers and high flowing h pipe install and sc i dyno'd something like 230 rwhp
No boost guage but i believe its pullied the factory h/o kit 9-10 pounds:P
Something worked really well in the combo they said its far more then they have experianced in the past with other installs.

Basically im pondering a forged 5.0 aluminum stroker or the 5.4 forged if the intake and headers work well....I want to run 14 psi and possibly methanol injection

Longtubes, the new intake and a well done set of heads fed by 14lbs should be netting you pretty darn close to 500rwhp. make sure you take the need of fuel system into account on your budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Thoughts on the different engines?

Will longjevity be better in the 5.4 as its not a stroker?
I live in canada so gas is a big issue at 110 a litre:P will the 5.4 be much worse on gas?
I go to the track usually 1s a week in season so weight is an issue too.
Will a 5.4 4v stuff in? No intake options though right?
Will ported 2v heads flow enough under boost? they seem to now but i have not turned up the wick yet either:P

Engine combos are easy... only a few components affect matters greatly, other things that you'd think do dramatic things don't. The most important bits are, heads, cams, exhaust. The intake is important but not nearly as vital for the final output as those 3.

In order:
1. the 5.4 is a SUPER stroker but it's better designed to have the long stroke than a 3.7" stroke 4.6.
2. Fuel mileage in normal driving is no worse than the 4.6 in my experience. When you get your foot in it, things get substantially nastier than the 4.6 but , remember fuel burn is a function of HP generated so if your foot isn't in it deep it's no thirstier than a 4.6. I average 1-2mpg difference but sometimes it's better by that much and sometimes worse by that much.
3. total weight gain should be in the 80lb range. The gain in power and torque is more than worth it NA. Supercharged is like OMFG! that's fast.
4. 5.4 stuffs right in. You'll have very few challenges of any substance during the install. We'll need to help you out with some contacts for the mounting bracket for the blower and that's about it.
5. I recommend either Fox Lake or TEA for heads. Yes, ported 2v heads are plenty, and the blower makes them almost a non-issue anyway. Still, the 5.4 block needs as much flow as you can get from the 2v heads so stage 3 race porting is good. You're not going to have to worry about low end grunt anyway.

completenewb · 01-12-2008, 12:09 PM

Anyone have any experiance with mmr short/longblocks?
They seem pretty decent price in comparison to others just wondering if the quality is there web site and racing history seem to show they have a good product. Just wondering if anyone has purchased a lemon or heard much about them. The heads flow p/p basically same as fox lake..

thanks

completenewb · 01-12-2008, 12:20 PM

oh yah about the aluminum engine....savings something like 60 pounds..? so if i tack on 80 pounds for 5.4 thats 140 pounds on the front of my car difference between engines......10 pounds= 1 horsepower so need 14 more horse just to break even.

Id like to get aluminum 5.4 but dear god 4 grand for a block is a bit/alot much:P

Coulda sworn i saw a 5.8 modular on mmr racing but cant seem to find it...Anyone heard of a 5.8 modular?

completenewb · 01-12-2008, 12:23 PM

ahh its on the home page http://www.modularmustangracing.com/ 351r 5.8L modular engine block $3300:P

MMR stage 2 2v heads flow 227 192 and cost $1399 and fox lake flow 223 195 and cost $1795 -----I think MMR is more of a bargain....:P however mmr has factory valves springs retainers and locks and stock cams (no core charge they use brand new heads!)

Upgrade to MMR stainless Steel swirl polished valves $269.99 Upgrade to Comp high performance springs $239.99

where fox lake has Ferrea oversized valves, Manley hi-rev springs, solid bronze guides, Vit

seals (does not include cams) and they want your core
Dunno whats the better bargain? ?

I know i would do all the upgrades..

Blitzmann · 01-12-2008, 02:29 PM

Hey R3d any idea if KarKraft or RR 5.4 4v adapter plates would work with a Eaton (03/04 Cobra) or Kenne Bell?

completenewb · 01-12-2008, 04:24 PM

Just a guess id imagine they would as the plates make a stock 4.6 intake fit...

Blitzmann · 01-12-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Just a guess id imagine they would as the plates make a stock 4.6 intake fit...

I'm thinking it will as well just seeing if anyone else has any ideas.

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

Anyone have any experiance with mmr short/longblocks?
They seem pretty decent price in comparison to others just wondering if the quality is there web site and racing history seem to show they have a good product. Just wondering if anyone has purchased a lemon or heard much about them. The heads flow p/p basically same as fox lake..

thanks

They built mine. I supplied the parts but I had them machine, blueprint, balance and assemble.

Generally pleased with them.

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzmann

Hey R3d any idea if KarKraft or RR 5.4 4v adapter plates would work with a Eaton (03/04 Cobra) or Kenne Bell?

the 03 cobra heads were different... you should run that by the guys at Kar-Kraft and see which heads they're meant to fit. I'd bet they would but they may require a little tweaking... never know.

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 05:22 PM

For heads, there are exactly two places I'll ever go to because of the caliber of people that recommend them: TEA (Total Engine Airflow) and Fox Lake. In either case you can be assured of outstanding performance. I have Fox Lake with the bigger Ferrea valves and Comp springs.

Blitzmann · 01-12-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

the 03 cobra heads were different... you should run that by the guys at Kar-Kraft and see which heads they're meant to fit. I'd bet they would but they may require a little tweaking... never know.

Well the RR plates are made for either application correct? Just need a port matching?

completenewb · 01-12-2008, 07:32 PM

This a decent deal?

MMR 5.4 Street Mod 900 (up to 900HP)

*Cast Iron 5.4. Block Block
*New 4340 Forged 4.165 stroke Crankshaft w/micro polished journals at no extra charge
*New 4340 6.658 Manley H-beam Rods ( These US made rods are shotpeened, magnafluxed and weight matched to bring you the finest H-beam rod available for your 5.4
*New Forged Manley pistons 3.552 Bore size (High or low compression)
*Speed Pro file fit rings (precision file fit to your application, nitrous, blower, turbo or N/A)
*Speed Pro/Federal Mogul Rod and Main bearings
*Complete Pro Assembly and Balancing for the smoothest, highest revving shortblock available.

Shortblock Options:
Coated Pistons (ceramic dome/teflon skirt) $399.99
Upgrade to MMR block side bolts (recommended for 500+ HP) +$44.99
MMR Street/Racing Oil Pump (highly recommended) + $179.99
ARP Headstuds and MMR/Felpro Extreme Duty Headgaskets + $369.99
ARP Mainstuds (recommended for 600+HP) +169.99

MMR windage tray and hardware kit (+15HP) + 129.99

$2899

shakin_bakin · 01-12-2008, 08:53 PM

for all brand new stuff and assembled i say its a good deal... i was going to use that but then.. came across my gig.... so ya... i would go that rroute but make sure you get the headstuds and gaskets and mainstuds, and i would do the oil pump upgrade too... so that way your ready to go for a alot of boost, and dont have to worry about nothing in your shortblock....

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzmann

Well the RR plates are made for either application correct? Just need a port matching?

don't know. If they are that would be an INSANE combo.

*r3dn3ck* · 01-12-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

This a decent deal?
MMR 5.4 Street Mod 900 (up to 900HP)
$2899

Add the main studs and make sure they're using H-series bearings. I have a pretty similar setup on my block.

millatime · 01-13-2008, 03:46 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-Fo...2em118Q2el1247

00 lightning longblock minus the supercharger, 86k miles $950 obo

I wish I had the money I would buy this in a heartbeat

millatime · 01-13-2008, 03:56 PM

R3D, question for ya.

Using the shortblock on the bottom of the page, http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm , what kind of compression do you estimate the motor would run w/ ported heads, agressive street cams, 5.4 HPS intake and longtubes and what #'s would you estimate?

If the link doesn't work, its a new 5.4 4v shortblock w/ flat top pistons and a steel 8 bolt crank.

completenewb · 01-13-2008, 04:18 PM

lightning engines are not ALL forged are they? thought they had a weak link...?

millatime · 01-13-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

lightning engines isnt ALL forged is it? thought it had a weak link...?

I belive the crank and pistons are forged and the rods are not.

singlesupra · 01-13-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millatime

R3D, question for ya.

Using the shortblock on the bottom of the page, http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm , what kind of compression do you estimate the motor would run w/ ported heads, agressive street cams, 5.4 HPS intake and longtubes and what #'s would you estimate?

If the link doesn't work, its a new 5.4 4v shortblock w/ flat top pistons and a steel 8 bolt crank.

FWIW, after talking to randy haywood(he has built a LOT of 5.4's) he keeps assuring me that 300 to the tires with stock heads/cams and all the boltons is not out of reach. Throw the cams, ported heads and who knows.

cdjnight · 01-13-2008, 05:34 PM

Lightnings came with powdered metal rods just like the 4.6

myillwillinc · 01-13-2008, 09:11 PM

the rod is what gave way on my 5.4 when a shop decided to rev her past 7k for a min or two....it put a hole on both sides of the block and let the piston dance with the valves.....

shakin_bakin · 01-14-2008, 07:11 AM

ouch.. that looks nasty...

cdjnight · 01-14-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

the rod is what gave way on my 5.4 when a shop decided to rev her past 7k for a min or two....it put a hole on both sides of the block and let the piston dance with the valves.....

Are the marks in the top of the piston from hitting the valves. If they are they had to of stayed into it for a long time, till that rod gave way. My 4.6 windowed both sides of the block too.

*r3dn3ck* · 01-14-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millatime

R3D, question for ya.

Using the shortblock on the bottom of the page, http://www.karkraft.com/short_blocks.htm , what kind of compression do you estimate the motor would run w/ ported heads, agressive street cams, 5.4 HPS intake and longtubes and what #'s would you estimate?

If the link doesn't work, its a new 5.4 4v shortblock w/ flat top pistons and a steel 8 bolt crank.

Should make 11.1:1. Should make within a few % of a stock compression motor but it's better for hot cammed cars. I'd put fuel in it for 350rwhp... ie 30lbs injectors to start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by completenewb

lightning engines are not ALL forged are they? thought they had a weak link...?

Rods are stock F150 rods... cracked cap forged powdered metal I-beam. They're really pretty strong as stock rods go. But they're not a performance rod by any stretch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by millatime

I belive the crank and pistons are forged and the rods are not.

All steel connecting rods are forged. Just some are stronger than others. Most aluminum and titanium rods are CNC billet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlesupra

FWIW, after talking to randy haywood(he has built a LOT of 5.4's) he keeps assuring me that 300 to the tires with stock heads/cams and all the boltons is not out of reach. Throw the cams, ported heads and who knows.

The heads can flow it.. you just need the in and out paths to be as perfect as the can. Fail to do it in either place and you lose out on 30hp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdjnight

Lightnings came with powdered metal rods just like the 4.6

That's a fact jack. Only the Ford GT and 2000 Cobra R came with 5.4's with something else and those were Manley and carillo respectively. The Ford GT's H-beams are nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myillwillinc

the rod is what gave way on my 5.4 when a shop decided to rev her past 7k for a min or two....it put a hole on both sides of the block and let the piston dance with the valves.....

that makes me a sad panda.