Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Page 102

96blackgt54 · 11-21-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

illwill has been a rockstar helping out everyone else with experience points and pushing on the limits. I think just having him around helps people realize how attainable the swap is.

INDEED!

I think we all should give our self a pat on the back, for just input in this forum.
AND around of applause for "r3dneck" for mataining the forum!

It's good to go to a place and not get made fun of because you want a N/A 5.4l 2V.

myillwillinc · 11-21-2007, 11:36 AM

i haven't been made fun of, but i have been told i was nuts for trying it.

most forums i'm on( too many to count) were amazed and intriged by the swap. i know a couple guys on here wanted to do it after they saw mine in person.
somebody had an idea awhile back over having a 5.4 mustang show, sounds good.

singlesupra · 11-21-2007, 08:54 PM

Well some news on my end.

Going to pick up a stock navi longblock friday. The sound the 99 is making still sounds like its in the trans. Either way will be fine with me as either way Im ending up with a DOHC 5.4 in it.
Scenario 1, trans is infact bad. Ill replace the trans and drive the car like it is while I build a street monster.
Scenario 2, engine is bad. Ill slap on the cobra cams, custom intake and drive it as it is while building the other engine I have.

Both scenarios end up with the 99 back on the road asap, woohoo!

I too bought a set of adapter plates from turboX2. Awsome guy to deal with btw and very knowledgable!

r3dn3ck · 11-22-2007, 07:52 AM

w00t. congrats!

I got tune #7 in my email yesterday. Be putting it on this morning and then doing some more WOT runs. I've scheduled a dyno run for next wednesday. Should be some interesting results.

singlesupra · 11-22-2007, 09:33 PM

Who are you getting the mail order tune from? Working 7 days a week and living in the sticks its kinda hard for me to get to a dyno. I can verify the a/f with my wb

r3dn3ck · 11-23-2007, 07:52 AM

I'm working with Amazon Racing on my tuning. I've done the bulk of it but for 125 bucks they've got the extra expertise and they're down to work with guys like me (or anyone) to get the tune right. I'm still doing most of it but I needed a little help to get some of the more advanced stuff worked out.

One of the tuners in my area farms out the REALLY complicated jobs to Amazon and then does the fine tuning on the dyno.

If you need a tune and you have the SCT software I can give you a file to load values from that should get you running. If nothing else, the first Amazon tune I got was perfectly streetable. It wasn't perfect yet but I did easily drive it.

2Eighty1 · 11-23-2007, 09:39 AM

I'm allmost ready to dive back into this project guys... reading your stories has helped keep my interest up so keep those stories and pics flowing.

I signed the deal on my new casa wednesday and we are moving next weekend - after that its back to the car fund

r3dn3ck · 11-23-2007, 09:48 AM

sick.

Hey guys, speaking of which I have a bunch of spare parts that I need to sell.

2v 5.4L front cover, belt tensioner, oil pumps, pick-up tubes, dipstick tubes, chains & gears, 1 ported (stage 1) head, windage tray and other stuff. I'll send you a box full of goodies for 300 bucks. Also, I'm taking dibbs on my HPS intake and reichard plates.

singlesupra · 11-23-2007, 06:17 PM

picked up the navi longblock today(minus intake), thats a BIG bastard. Can I pull the navi 8 rib crank pulley off and run a SOHC balancer and all my mustang acc's?

cdjnight · 11-23-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlesupra

picked up the navi longblock today(minus intake), thats a BIG bastard. Can I pull the navi 8 rib crank pulley off and run a SOHC balancer and all my mustang acc's?

It will fit on there but you need to have bottom end balanced for the lighter crank dampener. Any time you change the rotating weight on a crank it needs to be rebalanced.

singlesupra · 11-24-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdjnight

It will fit on there but you need to have bottom end balanced for the lighter crank dampener. Any time you change the rotating weight on a crank it needs to be rebalanced.

i wa under the impression that all modulars were zero balaced? If thats the case, as long as the balancer will physicly fit should be a direct swap I would think

r3dn3ck · 11-24-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlesupra

picked up the navi longblock today(minus intake), thats a BIG bastard. Can I pull the navi 8 rib crank pulley off and run a SOHC balancer and all my mustang acc's?

I'm running all the 8 rib pulleys except for the alternator, I'm running a 6 rib belt for now. It works with any combo as long as your belt isn't too wide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdjnight

It will fit on there but you need to have bottom end balanced for the lighter crank dampener. Any time you change the rotating weight on a crank it needs to be rebalanced.

See below. The damper is not a balancer like on some other cars. It's just there to dampen, not to balance. If you use an unbalanced damper like a plain ol' pulley without all the extra weight and rubber (these exist but are hard to find) you can cause severe engine damage from what I've been told.

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlesupra

i wa under the impression that all modulars were zero balaced? If thats the case, as long as the balancer will physicly fit should be a direct swap I would think

There you go. I'm using the stock 8rib crank pulley, all the 8rib tensioners and a 6 rib alternator pulley (stock hehe). My shizzle works great.

cdjnight · 11-24-2007, 09:58 AM

If you talk to any balance shop they will tell you that the total weight of the balancer is taken into account when doing any type of engine balance job, IE...on a modular motor they will want the dampener, oil pump gear, timing gears, gear for magnetic pickup, flywheel, and flywheel bolts. In order to properly balance any motor they need any part that spins with the crank. You are correct about the internal balance but changing the total weight on the front of the crank can cause premature wear and or failure of the bearings. (5.4L and 4.6L dampeners have a different total weight)

Read this http://www.centuryperformance.com/balancing.asp it will tell you that you need these parts to spin while balancing a motor. Also yes you can balance without the correct dampener but you are gambling with the lively-hood of your bottom end

cdjnight · 11-24-2007, 10:36 AM

All automotive engines can benefit by being balanced when they are rebuilt. If you have performed any of the following:

Replaced the Pistons
Ground the Crankshaft
Replaced the Crankshaft
Resized the Connecting Rods
Replaced the Connecting Rods
Replaced the Flywheel
Replaced the Damper
Replaced the Flexplate

your engine will need to be balanced to attain the longest life and performance of your rebuilt engine.

http://www.perpetualbalance.com/balance/main.html

singlesupra · 11-24-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdjnight

All automotive engines can benefit by being balanced when they are rebuilt. If you have performed any of the following:

Replaced the Pistons
Ground the Crankshaft
Replaced the Crankshaft
Resized the Connecting Rods
Replaced the Connecting Rods
Replaced the Flywheel
Replaced the Damper
Replaced the Flexplate

your engine will need to be balanced to attain the longest life and performance of your rebuilt engine.

http://www.perpetualbalance.com/balance/main.html

WHile I see what they are saying AND agree about the benifits, do you honestly think its worth it to tear the engine apart when you have a flywheel replaced? The material removed after having a flywheel turned I would guess would be greater than running the 4.6 dampner. Or might just convert all to 8 rib or may do like redn3ck done and use half and half.

97mustang4.62V · 11-24-2007, 07:05 PM

what are some good cam choices? or grinds? how would 230/236 500" 114lsa cams do in a stock 5.4 with bolt ons

gtvert · 11-24-2007, 09:37 PM

On the kar kraft website they have 2 different 5.4 shortblocks for sale. One is for a lightning and the other a 5.4 4 valve. Would the 5.4 4 valve shortblock be a better starting point for a n/a two valve build with the flat top pistons? The 4 valve shortblock is also $400 cheaper, money that could be spent towards better rods.

r3dn3ck · 11-25-2007, 07:07 AM

the 4v is cheaper because it comes with cast pistons not forged. The lightning motor comes with forged pistons. With that shortblock and a set of 320 dollar TMD h-beams and a balance job away from a rock solid little bullet of a motor.

The 4v block will net out 10.8:1 - 11.1:1 compression (I'm at 10.5:1). The L block will net out closer to 8.5:1 which will cost some NA power (not much) but makes for a great boost motor.

97mustang4.62v... Best cam depends on a lot of things. I'll BRB with the results of simulating your spec and an optimized timing for best HP and TQ. Realize that these are theoretical until someone tries them.

K... cam results: From virtual dyno the 230/236 is an ok cam with decent potential for as low as it lifts. A lot depends on the ramp rate. I was able to play with it a bit and got better results at the same lift with 226/240 on a 112.5 LSA. With a regular street grade ramp speed you'll see higher hp and tq across the board and a bit more power under the curve and that's on .500 lift. FWIW, my comp 270's show better power than either cam but lift .550.

gtvert · 11-25-2007, 07:26 AM

r3d

would 10.8:1 or 11.1:1 be too much for a street motor. Being n/a with no nitrous I would not be too worried about the cast pistons, only the rods. I could be wrong though as this is going to be my first project like this if I go ahead with it.

r3dn3ck · 11-25-2007, 08:00 AM

i run 10.5 and that's perfectly fine for street. 11:1 is about my reasonable limit for a car that will see 91/93 octane gas. Nitrous is extra good on high comp motors. I see little reason not to do it. If you have the heads ported and remove the emissions mask/swirl dam then you'll be safely just below 11:1 with flat tops. I'd do it.

If you can do it, I really recommend the H-beams. Cheap insurance against a windowed block.

97mustang4.62V · 11-25-2007, 10:20 AM

r3dn3ck

what are some good cam choices? or grinds? how would 230/236 500" 114lsa cams do in a stock 5.4 with bolt ons

View Poll Results: What are your 5.4L swap plans?
Not swapping. You guys are nuts for trying.	0	0%
Not swapping but find the topic interesting.	0	0%
Thinking about doing the swap but not in the next year.	0	0%
Definitely going to do the swap in the next year or so.	0	0%
Doing it now. Looking for an engine or awaiting delivery.	0	0%
Doing it now. Already bought an engine.	0	0%
Done. Got my 5.4L and showin my tail lights to camaro's every day.	0	0%
Screw 5.4, I'm going 6.8L V10	0	0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

11-21-2007, 11:36 AM	#3032 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 574	i haven't been made fun of, but i have been told i was nuts for trying it. most forums i'm on( too many to count) were amazed and intriged by the swap. i know a couple guys on here wanted to do it after they saw mine in person. somebody had an idea awhile back over having a 5.4 mustang show, sounds good. __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

11-22-2007, 07:52 AM	#3034 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,693	w00t. congrats! I got tune #7 in my email yesterday. Be putting it on this morning and then doing some more WOT runs. I've scheduled a dyno run for next wednesday. Should be some interesting results. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

11-23-2007, 07:52 AM	#3036 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,693	I'm working with Amazon Racing on my tuning. I've done the bulk of it but for 125 bucks they've got the extra expertise and they're down to work with guys like me (or anyone) to get the tune right. I'm still doing most of it but I needed a little help to get some of the more advanced stuff worked out. One of the tuners in my area farms out the REALLY complicated jobs to Amazon and then does the fine tuning on the dyno. If you need a tune and you have the SCT software I can give you a file to load values from that should get you running. If nothing else, the first Amazon tune I got was perfectly streetable. It wasn't perfect yet but I did easily drive it. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

11-23-2007, 09:39 AM	#3037 (permalink)
2Eighty1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 361	I'm allmost ready to dive back into this project guys... reading your stories has helped keep my interest up so keep those stories and pics flowing. I signed the deal on my new casa wednesday and we are moving next weekend - after that its back to the car fund __________________ 5.4L 3v '04 GT Buildup In Progress... For Photos visit: http://www.whitemustangregistry.com/...AGT-t1625.html

11-21-2007, 08:54 PM	#3033 (permalink)
singlesupra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	Well some news on my end. Going to pick up a stock navi longblock friday. The sound the 99 is making still sounds like its in the trans. Either way will be fine with me as either way Im ending up with a DOHC 5.4 in it. Scenario 1, trans is infact bad. Ill replace the trans and drive the car like it is while I build a street monster. Scenario 2, engine is bad. Ill slap on the cobra cams, custom intake and drive it as it is while building the other engine I have. Both scenarios end up with the 99 back on the road asap, woohoo! I too bought a set of adapter plates from turboX2. Awsome guy to deal with btw and very knowledgable!

11-22-2007, 09:33 PM	#3035 (permalink)
singlesupra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	Who are you getting the mail order tune from? Working 7 days a week and living in the sticks its kinda hard for me to get to a dyno. I can verify the a/f with my wb

11-23-2007, 09:48 AM	#3038 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,693	sick. Hey guys, speaking of which I have a bunch of spare parts that I need to sell. 2v 5.4L front cover, belt tensioner, oil pumps, pick-up tubes, dipstick tubes, chains & gears, 1 ported (stage 1) head, windage tray and other stuff. I'll send you a box full of goodies for 300 bucks. Also, I'm taking dibbs on my HPS intake and reichard plates. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

11-23-2007, 06:17 PM	#3039 (permalink)
singlesupra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	picked up the navi longblock today(minus intake), thats a BIG bastard. Can I pull the navi 8 rib crank pulley off and run a SOHC balancer and all my mustang acc's?

11-24-2007, 09:58 AM	#3043 (permalink)
cdjnight Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 116	If you talk to any balance shop they will tell you that the total weight of the balancer is taken into account when doing any type of engine balance job, IE...on a modular motor they will want the dampener, oil pump gear, timing gears, gear for magnetic pickup, flywheel, and flywheel bolts. In order to properly balance any motor they need any part that spins with the crank. You are correct about the internal balance but changing the total weight on the front of the crank can cause premature wear and or failure of the bearings. (5.4L and 4.6L dampeners have a different total weight) Read this http://www.centuryperformance.com/balancing.asp it will tell you that you need these parts to spin while balancing a motor. Also yes you can balance without the correct dampener but you are gambling with the lively-hood of your bottom end __________________ Momentum is everything till you drive off a cliff! 2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8(LOL), Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Precision T63, 42lb injectors, Flowmaster 3.5" Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Kenne Bell BAP,BG Mighty Sumo pump, MSD MOD6, LM1 wideband, Best e.t, 7.67@92mph in the 1/8th. on MT drag radials. No dyno tune yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaJ2yQH1Ezs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1hiMJy3ezk Last edited by cdjnight : 11-24-2007 at 10:43 AM.

11-24-2007, 10:36 AM	#3044 (permalink)
cdjnight Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 116	All automotive engines can benefit by being balanced when they are rebuilt. If you have performed any of the following: Replaced the Pistons Ground the Crankshaft Replaced the Crankshaft Resized the Connecting Rods Replaced the Connecting Rods Replaced the Flywheel Replaced the Damper Replaced the Flexplate your engine will need to be balanced to attain the longest life and performance of your rebuilt engine. http://www.perpetualbalance.com/balance/main.html __________________ Momentum is everything till you drive off a cliff! 2003 Mustang GT, 5.4L Triton V8(LOL), Comp 270's gears and springs, Intercooled Precision T63, 42lb injectors, Flowmaster 3.5" Single Chamber, B&M Holeshot 3000, Racegate, Sniper Commando Tuning, Kenne Bell BAP,BG Mighty Sumo pump, MSD MOD6, LM1 wideband, Best e.t, 7.67@92mph in the 1/8th. on MT drag radials. No dyno tune yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaJ2yQH1Ezs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1hiMJy3ezk Last edited by cdjnight : 11-24-2007 at 10:39 AM. Reason: added link

11-24-2007, 07:05 PM	#3046 (permalink)
97mustang4.62V Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 21	what are some good cam choices? or grinds? how would 230/236 500" 114lsa cams do in a stock 5.4 with bolt ons

11-24-2007, 09:37 PM	#3047 (permalink)
gtvert Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9	On the kar kraft website they have 2 different 5.4 shortblocks for sale. One is for a lightning and the other a 5.4 4 valve. Would the 5.4 4 valve shortblock be a better starting point for a n/a two valve build with the flat top pistons? The 4 valve shortblock is also $400 cheaper, money that could be spent towards better rods.

11-25-2007, 07:07 AM	#3048 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,693	the 4v is cheaper because it comes with cast pistons not forged. The lightning motor comes with forged pistons. With that shortblock and a set of 320 dollar TMD h-beams and a balance job away from a rock solid little bullet of a motor. The 4v block will net out 10.8:1 - 11.1:1 compression (I'm at 10.5:1). The L block will net out closer to 8.5:1 which will cost some NA power (not much) but makes for a great boost motor. 97mustang4.62v... Best cam depends on a lot of things. I'll BRB with the results of simulating your spec and an optimized timing for best HP and TQ. Realize that these are theoretical until someone tries them. K... cam results: From virtual dyno the 230/236 is an ok cam with decent potential for as low as it lifts. A lot depends on the ramp rate. I was able to play with it a bit and got better results at the same lift with 226/240 on a 112.5 LSA. With a regular street grade ramp speed you'll see higher hp and tq across the board and a bit more power under the curve and that's on .500 lift. FWIW, my comp 270's show better power than either cam but lift .550. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page Last edited by r3dn3ck : 11-25-2007 at 07:37 AM.

11-25-2007, 07:26 AM	#3049 (permalink)
gtvert Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 9	r3d would 10.8:1 or 11.1:1 be too much for a street motor. Being n/a with no nitrous I would not be too worried about the cast pistons, only the rods. I could be wrong though as this is going to be my first project like this if I go ahead with it.

11-25-2007, 08:00 AM	#3050 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,693	i run 10.5 and that's perfectly fine for street. 11:1 is about my reasonable limit for a car that will see 91/93 octane gas. Nitrous is extra good on high comp motors. I see little reason not to do it. If you have the heads ported and remove the emissions mask/swirl dam then you'll be safely just below 11:1 with flat tops. I'd do it. If you can do it, I really recommend the H-beams. Cheap insurance against a windowed block. __________________ Built 5.5L 2v and Maximum Motorsports Max Grip box. www.squarerootofone.com My CarDomain Page

11-25-2007, 10:20 AM	#3051 (permalink)
97mustang4.62V Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 21	r3dn3ck what are some good cam choices? or grinds? how would 230/236 500" 114lsa cams do in a stock 5.4 with bolt ons