Originally Posted by TUFF 4.6 (Post 469757)

Welcome to the Boards. Tell us a little more about the car.

Originally Posted by zigzagg321 (Post 469759)

welcome... to answer your question is impossible without more info.

Originally Posted by probiker427 (Post 469760)

starting with a year and model would help lol, welcome dude.

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck (Post 469774)

don't bother with most of the bullshit you have listed, grab a 100 shot of nitrous, the gears and a proper dyno tune. You'll make more power, spend less money and be just as happy.

75mm tb is WORTHLESS without a 5.4L swap or a 8000rpm engine, which doesn't work in 2v anyway.

cams are EXTREMELY expensive to install and purchase and they return MAYBE 25hp if your super fuckin' lucky. Don't bother until you decide to build the engine with forged pistons, forged h-beam rods and all that jazz.

CAI = 1hp. Wow, great way to waste 200 bucks. How about you use the stocker which actually outflows most aftermarket pipes.

Upper plenum = 0 hp. Yep, not a damned sausage. If you want to burn the money, fine but in all reality the engine CAN NOT POSSIBLY use the entirety of the flow capacity of the stock unit. The stocker also supports up to a 70mm TB which is all the upgrade to that component that's really worthwhile on a 4.6L application, and even then it's a pretty grossly bad waste of money for what you get out of it. BIG DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD.

Cat-back is basically for sound but I've seen 3-6hp from it on various cars. That said, power adder cars need more exhaust capacity than NA cars so I'll say that this isn't necessarily wasted but know that you're going to be changing sound, not really performance there. BTW... you can't feel power increases under about 15hp.

Pullies are the stupidest thing ever foisted on the modding public. 0hp change until you cross about 4000rpm, then you get 1-3. If you want to really pull power out of your pullies, then fuck all those underdrive BS hunks of shit and get a proper electric water pump. Keep a spare mechanical pump in the trunk and plan on replacing every couple years. An electric water pump can pretty easily net out 10-14hp and you can feel the difference at any RPM and it improves cooling.

I know for a fact that you'll make 50hp more if you follow my advice and you'll spend 1000 dollars less.

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck (Post 469774)

don't bother with most of the bullshit you have listed, grab a 100 shot of nitrous, the gears and a proper dyno tune. You'll make more power, spend less money and be just as happy.

75mm tb is WORTHLESS without a 5.4L swap or a 8000rpm engine, which doesn't work in 2v anyway.

cams are EXTREMELY expensive to install and purchase and they return MAYBE 25hp if your super fuckin' lucky. Don't bother until you decide to build the engine with forged pistons, forged h-beam rods and all that jazz.

CAI = 1hp. Wow, great way to waste 200 bucks. How about you use the stocker which actually outflows most aftermarket pipes.

Upper plenum = 0 hp. Yep, not a damned sausage. If you want to burn the money, fine but in all reality the engine CAN NOT POSSIBLY use the entirety of the flow capacity of the stock unit. The stocker also supports up to a 70mm TB which is all the upgrade to that component that's really worthwhile on a 4.6L application, and even then it's a pretty grossly bad waste of money for what you get out of it. BIG DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD.

Cat-back is basically for sound but I've seen 3-6hp from it on various cars. That said, power adder cars need more exhaust capacity than NA cars so I'll say that this isn't necessarily wasted but know that you're going to be changing sound, not really performance there. BTW... you can't feel power increases under about 15hp.

Pullies are the stupidest thing ever foisted on the modding public. 0hp change until you cross about 4000rpm, then you get 1-3. If you want to really pull power out of your pullies, then fuck all those underdrive BS hunks of shit and get a proper electric water pump. Keep a spare mechanical pump in the trunk and plan on replacing every couple years. An electric water pump can pretty easily net out 10-14hp and you can feel the difference at any RPM and it improves cooling.

I know for a fact that you'll make 50hp more if you follow my advice and you'll spend 1000 dollars less.

Originally Posted by Shorties2001gt (Post 471026)

to answer questions on throttle bodies and plenums
please read this: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...no-charts.html

now to camshafts. if cams only gained 15hp than you wouldnt see so many people running stage 2 cams and making 280-300 hp when degreed properly. Have you heard of hitech stage 2 cams? because the average on a 5 speed is 280-300 and they are great for putting full bolt on and properly geared gts in the 12s. 15 hp is what you would expect from a stage 1 cam. I am not an expert, I am just posting from what ppl in the real world make with cams. There is a reason why cams are so popular. In case you did not know, but supporting mods are extremely important. Throttle bodys and plenums are important supporting especialy when building n/a. airflow is important and when building n/a (and especialy f/i) the stock stuff will become a hinderance. Same goes for cais, because a strait smooth open tube is better for feeding air the the stocker. supporting mods will help. let me put it in persepective for you a 4.6l built and stroked to 5.0 with heads and cams will be really lucky to see 350hp, a built 4.6l stock stroke with heads and cams will be lucky to see 320hp. or someone can throw in a good stage 2 cam like hitech stage 2 cams where the average is 280 to 300, now throw in a better gear ratio (373 or 410 are great choices, or even 430 or 390) and combined with fulll boltons decent suspension and a good driver, will be a solid 12 sec performer. Do a little research before handing out false information.

Originally Posted by stanger00 (Post 471053)

Unwise grasshopper.

Dude, his 25hp estimate is fully within your estimate of 280-300hp. But is the gain really worth the nearly 2 grand price tag (parts and professional install).

From what I gather from your post is that you're a 'stats' guy with no actual personal data to contribute to the numbers you are tossing around. Your case and argument is null in my eyes.

Sounds like you are spamming for Hi-Tech?

Originally Posted by Shorties2001gt (Post 471065)

let me explain "grasshopper"

pi 2v gts will dyno low side 230s to high side 250s unless you have some factory freak. so i will use an average of 245, now some basic math for you 280-245=35, 280-235-45. those gains are higher than 15 or 25. the factory freaks that dyno late 250s to early 260s are usualy the ones that hit the 290s to 300 with cams, which again is above 15- 25 hp. and my data is from peoples real life dyno results, talking to performance shops and doing my research. if your gonna debate with me learn basic math and research so you have counter points.

Originally Posted by stanger00 (Post 471069)

The grasshopper was for your greenhorn status here. You clearly do not know who the resident factoid members are, I am not one of them, obviously.

Also, I stand by statement because dyno numbers are just what they are, numbers.

Yes, you keep using your math to add up all those bolt on advertised hp gains. I have searched and I pretty much only seen about 10 threads of different cars pull 280-290 hp numbers out of stage 2 cams...but long tubes are a must and some actually have a trickflow intake or victor jr and spin the motor to 6500. I believe majority of people leave with their heads hanging low after cams are installed because they didnt get the high side of a 30 horsepower gain but rather a 20hp gain.

Again, get some PERSONAL data, as in your OWN, and report back to us.


The bottom line of his post was to skip all the bullshit bolt ons and go straight for the power adder. Nitrous being the most bang for your buck. 800-1k investment for 100 horspower and 110-120 lb ft of torque added. Most of us has gone and got the CAI, tb, pulley and exhaust t-shirts only to be left dissatisfied with nominal performance gains.

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck (Post 471120)

How about I just stop the arguing and say, stanger00 is right. I know he knows what's real, he like I has actually been there and done that.

Let's not dwell too long on dyno numbers either. I don't want to get my experience stick out.

Originally Posted by 00blkstanggt (Post 471123)

Just a word of advice to some of the newbies in here. You should a little research before trying to call out long time members on this board who have spent tons of money on various parts for their cars and trying out different combinations. A lot of us, myself included, have spent more money than we should have for minimal gains. There's a lot of great and useful information on this board and we don't need new people trying call out those members because they give out different information than what you might have read on the manufacturers website about their product. All cars are going to vary on numbers, but if you're going to be calling people out, you better have good data and information to back up your statements.

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck (Post 469774)

cams are EXTREMELY expensive to install and purchase and they return MAYBE 25hp if your super fuckin' lucky.

Originally Posted by Shorties2001gt (Post 471026)

to answer questions on throttle bodies and plenums
please read this: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...no-charts.html

now to camshafts. if cams only gained 15hp than you wouldnt see so many people running stage 2 cams and making 300 hp

Do a little research before handing out false information.

Originally Posted by Shorties2001gt (Post 471125)

you assume that just because i am new to this forum I am less knowledgable, you are simply getting pissy when I bring counter info to the table.

Originally Posted by Shorties2001gt (Post 471181)

40hp from a cam? Is that including the bolt ons or not? If it is then r3dn3ck is correct. If its 40hp from cam only then fair enough. can`t see it though. I read your post on the other forum. Going by what you`ve found a TB and plenum on my near stock GT nets me 8hp. AND thats at the crank so maybe 5 at the wheels. ie. Fuck all for the money so r3dn3ck is right again then.

yes including bolt ons, BOLTONS ARE SUPPORTING MODS, on a stock gt they may not do much but they help future mods.

I`m a newbie too but that doesn`t mean to say I`m new to cars. I`ve had some properly quick cars some with two turbos some with one. I`m not dissing you man, I admire your optimism I`m just being realistic. What the Original poster was getting at was `what was he getting for his cash?` with a n/a car with bolt ons.

the fact is that cams are a great bang for the buck, a good suspension, good gear ratio, full bolt ons, good set of stage two cams, and a good driver is a proven combo for 12sec action.

Originally Posted by 00blkstanggt (Post 471186)

How can you say cams are a great bang for the buck? You're looking $1500 or so for the cams and install if you can't do it yourself. So $1500 for what 25hp gain, if you have the supporting mods. So then add the cost of those supporting mods and you are well over $2000 in parts and still under 300rwhp. As r3d said, nitrous is the best bang for the buck, but if you have patience and look around, you can piece together a supercharger kit for under $2000 like I did. After you spent all the money on bolt ons and such, then cams might look worth while, but they still aren't the best bang for your buck.

Originally Posted by krenogin (Post 471190)

And when you melt your pistons with the nitrous rebuild you engine and put new cams and forged internals so it's built right, and you can see gains from the cams.