5.4 3v Intake Manifold Discussion - Mustang Boards


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View Poll Results: Ever considered swapping to a 5.4L 3v in your mustang or truck?
Hellz yeah. Doing that already. 1 4.35%
Yes I plan on putting a 5.4L 3v in my 96-04. 7 30.43%
Yes I plan on putting a 5.4L 3v in my 05+ 1 4.35%
Yes I plan on swapping a 3v 5.4 into my <04 truck. 0 0%
Yes I plan on swapping a 3v 5.4 into my 04+ truck. 1 4.35%
Not swapping or going 2v or 4v instead but still find the topic interesting. 12 52.17%
No I'm not and I think you should be beaten for asking. 1 4.35%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 09-26-2008, 08:19 AM
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Default 5.4 3v Intake Manifold Discussion

K guys... It's time to start figuring out the 5.4 3.v intake. Bob expressed an interest in making a 3v intake for 5.4's. I think we may be able to do 4.6 and 5.4 in the same intake but we'll see if that idea pans (it's only a picture in my head right now).

For me some key features that would be optimal would include:

Modularity: Should allow 99-04 3v 5.4 swap and 05+ 5.4 swap on a single primary casting. Secondary benefit would be to allow 5.4L trucks to use the same manifold, with some minor mods to stuff that connects to it.

Installability: Must allow relatively simple installation. No large scale cutting, welding. Some minor wiring harness mods ok. Do we need to worry about the CMCV's? Do people care about those? What if we can get the same bottom end power without them?

Price: Needs to come in at a reasonable price. <1K bucks seems proper. <850 seems better to me as a consumer.

Performance... needs to at least flow to the cylinder head potential. I'd think 330-340 per runner based on C&L's posted test results.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:53 PM
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well while we're on the subject what would be more difficult about doing a 3 valve swap over a 2 valve. besides the intake i would think you would need a cobra ecu and harness right?
oh and i think you should have included an option in the poll for peple like me who have already made headway with a 2valve swap
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2008, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dn3ck View Post
K guys... It's time to start figuring out the 5.4 3.v intake. Bob expressed an interest in making a 3v intake for 5.4's. I think we may be able to do 4.6 and 5.4 in the same intake but we'll see if that idea pans (it's only a picture in my head right now).

For me some key features that would be optimal would include:

Modularity: Should allow 99-04 3v 5.4 swap and 05+ 5.4 swap on a single primary casting. Secondary benefit would be to allow 5.4L trucks to use the same manifold, with some minor mods to stuff that connects to it.

Installability: Must allow relatively simple installation. No large scale cutting, welding. Some minor wiring harness mods ok. Do we need to worry about the CMCV's? Do people care about those? What if we can get the same bottom end power without them?

Price: Needs to come in at a reasonable price. <1K bucks seems proper. <850 seems better to me as a consumer.

Performance... needs to at least flow to the cylinder head potential. I'd think 330-340 per runner based on C&L's posted test results.

Sounds very interesting and I would seriously consider a 5.4 3v if the swap would contain all necessary parts. Would this manifold include a plate to use a pre-05 throttle body like a 03/04 4-valve throttle body? If not, there is always the plate made by logan and the adjustable cam gears to eliminate vvt are available as well through them. I say delete the CMCV's.
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Old 09-26-2008, 01:49 PM
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Milla: The intake would probably come with an adapter for the TB. It's an easy thing to machine. Can't see why not. CMCV choice noted.

intz: you'd need your stock harness (though some wires may need fiddled with/extended/etc...), v10 cam gears or adjustables, and a tune. Other than that standard 5.4 2v swap stuff. It's still within reach if you want to go there. Poll fixed.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dn3ck View Post
K guys... It's time to start figuring out the 5.4 3.v intake. Bob expressed an interest in making a 3v intake for 5.4's. I think we may be able to do 4.6 and 5.4 in the same intake but we'll see if that idea pans (it's only a picture in my head right now).
I'm thinking something like the C&L, but have the runners on each side break away and a slip in plate between the body of the intake and runners for the diffrence in width. Kinda like that S/C intake by that one company(I can't seem to remember the name).
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:29 AM
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well ... with the C&L 4.6 intake there's really no reason for HPS to make one... other than maybe to squish their market.

I do like the idea and it's really easy to do, and cheaper for HPS in some respects. I've been working on a modular design like that for years but getting the runner length to be long enough for a NA car has been an obstacle... keep running into other walls. I think though that I just solved it.
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2008, 09:59 AM
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well ... with the C&L 4.6 intake there's really no reason for HPS to make one... other than maybe to squish their market.
Way too small of a market to build something for a reason like that, you'd lose your *** in the process....

Honestly if it weren't for a relationship you have with HPS if there was a real need for a 5.4 3v intake I'd be contacting CnL and asking them to cast a wider version. Would take about 5% of the development cost of something all new, which means to market much quicker and at a lower price. Having another version to sell would actually help recoup some of the development money spent on the 4.6 version as you would be spreading it over more units. Or, as I mentioned recently elsewhere, have HPS look at just transitioning the runner outlets on the current intake to the 3v port shape. They could apply the same changes to the 4.6 Hardball'r and make 3v retrofits easy (along with the other minor changes of course).

Just some opinions.
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:10 AM
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and some very good ones.... got any contacts there?
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2008, 11:26 AM
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and some very good ones.... got any contacts there?
Nope.
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:32 PM
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just wondering how long it took for the 5.4 2v intake to come out? from the time you first spoke with HPS to the time i hit the market.

just wondering because i'll just wait for the 3v intake to come out before i even start my build and just start saving up all my pennies for it and do it right
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2009, 01:44 PM
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1 year and 2 months from the thought of "HPS should make it" (rather than "should HPS make it") to the first one being delivered. The question is still at the should they part for the 3v. With the TF heads out there's really very little reason as those should be able to do as good or better than 3v heads and they're cheaper to deal with.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2009, 06:05 PM
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here's an option and you wouldnt have to deal with the expensive intake problem...The money would just go towards the blower

http://www.modularfords.com/2009/01/...angs/#more-248
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2009, 06:55 PM
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Well I dont know whats worse now, the expensive intake or the blower!

Retail $7,500.00
Intro Price $6,995.00

http://www.techcointl.com/product-p/...05-b000957.htm
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2009, 08:07 PM
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That kit is beautiful. Too bad about the price .
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2009, 06:48 AM
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and to top it all off the damn thing won't even work. they don't appear to make it for a 5.4.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2009, 11:29 AM
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I'm sure you could make some plates for it. They would drop performance a bit, but that kit would still make quite a difference.
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  #17  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:29 PM
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intz asked the question that i have. what is the complexity of the 3v swap compared to the 2v swap? I assume that the intake issues still have not been solved for the 3v. i found a 3v motor with a stock intake, can i make it work? any help would be GREATLY appreciated. im trying not to make a mistake of spending money on this 3v 5.4 that i found so im asking a lot of questions. thank you guys.
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  #18  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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You'll need a set of solid cam gears, some wires may need to be lengthened, and you might need the "delete" kit for the variable timing system. That's about it. Almost the same price as a 2v swap. Obviously if someone comes out with 2v longtube headers, you will need a set of adapter plates to make them work. Even without the proper intake, I'd think you should be able to see the same numbers as a 2v with ported heads. If you can get a 3v, I'd say go for it.
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  #19  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:24 AM
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Well... I want the least possible swapping. I can get a 3v that needs to be rebuilt for 600 but beginning to wonder if I wouldn't be Better off buying a 2v and putting some ported trickflow heads on it. That will flow with/outflow 4v heads. Now that I have seen how easy the 2v swap is I'm really considering just doing everything I was gonna do before except only with a 5.4 instead of a 4.6. Well, actually a stroked 5.4 instead of stroked 4.6. I was looking at spending around 10k anyways so why not get an extra liter or so of hp out of it lol
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  #20  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audikillsbmw View Post
You'll need a set of solid cam gears, some wires may need to be lengthened, and you might need the "delete" kit for the variable timing system. That's about it. Almost the same price as a 2v swap. Obviously if someone comes out with 2v longtube headers, you will need a set of adapter plates to make them work. Even without the proper intake, I'd think you should be able to see the same numbers as a 2v with ported heads. If you can get a 3v, I'd say go for it.
Instead of buying aftermarket cam gears or V10 cam gears (no vct on V10s) you can just get VCT lockouts for $50....

http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...t.phtml?p=1701

The headers will be touchy because if 2v headers come out that are a real tight fit, then adapter plates that are 1/2" thick and move the headers out and down may make them hit all over. I would just drop it in for now with the stock manifolds, the cast 3v manifolds are vastly better than the old logs, they actually have some runners in them.
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  #21  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by black2kstang View Post
Well... I want the least possible swapping. I can get a 3v that needs to be rebuilt for 600 but beginning to wonder if I wouldn't be Better off buying a 2v and putting some ported trickflow heads on it. That will flow with/outflow 4v heads. Now that I have seen how easy the 2v swap is I'm really considering just doing everything I was gonna do before except only with a 5.4 instead of a 4.6. Well, actually a stroked 5.4 instead of stroked 4.6. I was looking at spending around 10k anyways so why not get an extra liter or so of hp out of it lol
if you're going to stroke it you're losing out on higher RPM which the OHC design is great at delivering.

I'd look at 2 options for you given your budget:

2v, ported TF heads, built bottom end, HPS intake, JBA shorties or custom longtubes if you're hard up for the extra 20hp. With the right cams you're looking at mid 300's at the tires in theory, as long as the heads work.

3v, port the heads to stage 2, beg HPS to start the 3v intake, figure out the exhaust fitment, built bottom end, custom cams and some solid cam gears and you're looking at mid to high 300's at the wheels.

Since you have a 3v engine handy, have those 3v heads ported till hell won't have it. They'll flow right with the best ported TF heads if you have them hogged out properly and you can use lower lift cams which means you can run higher RPM while still getting your low end tq fix.

I would pass on the stroker kit. Unless you go to a 3.7" bore I don't see you making the kind of power you might think you would. It's already a super-stroker and piston speeds get pretty high around 6000rpm as it sits, with more stroke it's only going to get worse, not to mention other issues with stroking the 5.4. I'd just have it bored .020-030 over and go with that.
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Old 04-09-2009, 08:00 AM
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Well... The only way I'm gonna consider going 5.4 is if I can stroke it and so far I'm not finding out much info on it.... I can get a 5.0 stroker assembly for about 2k. Unless I can find a decent stroker kit for a 5.4 I'm just gonna stay with the 4.6 base. It would be a lot easier on me to do it that way....
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  #23  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:53 AM
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Well... The only way I'm gonna consider going 5.4 is if I can stroke it
Why on earth would that be a stopping point? You'd do a stroker 4.6 with a 3.70 stroke and 3.55 bore, but you won't build a 5.4 that already has 4.16 stroke unless you can take it further?? The 5.4 is already way oversquare, the last thing it needs is more stroke. Plus, you're already got a forged crank, all you need are rods and pistons with some good heads to start stomping ***....

If you want max hp get an FRPP Boss block for $1800 and a stroker kit, the 3.70 bore does wonders for high end power, but stroking a 5.4 makes no sense from an airflow and hp standpoint...
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default 5.4 swap

Hey guys im new to this forum i have 2002 mustang gt had trickflow intake manifold longtubes sniper tuning underdrive pulleys 24# injectors trickflow fuel rails and gt40 fuel pump. I blew my head gasket last spring havent had time to mess with till now i just got a 3v 5.4 out of 2004 f150 from local shop that a friend owns for free(doesnt get any cheaper) it had bad oil pump what i am wondering is can i swap 2v heads onto the 3v block without anything more than the heads timing cover and timing set and do you think the trickflow intake with the adapter plates would put down good numbers on the combo
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  #25  
Old 08-23-2009, 08:39 PM
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i do know that the oil pumps in the 3v engines run higher pressures to make the vct work so u should and might be able to swap out yours from your 4.6, the heads should bolt on but u should look into a little more to see if any oil galleys need plugged or opened.

you will need to get an 8 bolt flywheel too. exhaust is a hard option ftp has longtubes for $1000 but u can use shorties or stockers. still need to mod the h-pipe though 5.4 is a wider block.

i would sell the intake and get hps 5.4 intake. adapters will restrict airflow and would get less power and fuel economy

look at r3ds sticky thread in 4.6 tech about 5.4 swaps lots of good info in there and they could help you too.
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2009, 08:03 AM
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Not sure but IIRC the 04+ 5.4 blocks have different motor mount setups. if not, then it should work just fine for the most part.

Sell the TF intake and get the HPS intake. Adapter plates will cost you 10-20hp easy. You'll want to sell your existing longtubes and get either JBA or FRPP shorties or a set of the longtubes from FTP. The longtubes are based on mine but improved in a few ways and they fit way better. 4.6 longtubes cannot be cost effectively converted unless you're a skilled tig welder with lots of time on your hands.

24's should work but they'll be taxed pretty heavily at higher rpm. I'd ditch the 24's and grab a set of 30's, especially if you use the adapter plates as those mess up the fuel delivery a bit and it takes a LOT more fuel.

Sell your existing top end and you'll be able to finance the build with little issue. Now go join my 5.4 swap thread and we'll take the rest of your ?'s there.
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  #27  
Old 11-09-2010, 08:14 PM
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im gonna chime in here. seeing how i was the 2nd one to swap in a 5.4 3v. the stock intake is good for 280rwhp/340rwtq. if there was a performance 5.4 3v intake it would outpower a 4.6 3v easily.

my stock AUTOMATIC 5.4 3v made 250rwhp/340rwtq untouched. it doesnt sound like much, but its the same power a 4.6 3v automatic makes. THAT POWER WAS A 4250RPMS.


a short runner intake that makes power at 6000 would be a great thing for it. ported heads and its a 350rwhp /400rwtq motor. the stock intake has 18" runners and dies at 4300.

i ran a 8.5 @ 82.5 mph with the stock motor and a short runner intake i made from the stock unit. thats 13.3 in the 1/4 with no tune or other mods. a stall converter, tune, 6k intake manifold, cams, ported heads. just as much power but way more torque than a 4.6 3v.
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  #28  
Old 08-14-2013, 04:33 AM
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Not swapping or going 2v or 4v instead but still find the topic interesting.
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2013, 02:14 AM
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i am too considering the kit but no the prices .. here the match is mismatching ... i wish they were reasonable to go with
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