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Old 06-28-2008, 07:24 PM   #1
rich96cobra
Cool long tube headers

Hello everyone!

New to the site, but not to mustangs. I have been reading in in these forums where people were asking about long tune headers. Here is your answer. Long tube headers are joke for the 96 generation stangs. For the 96 cobra owners, stay away. The little 4.6 liter 32 valve is kicking all it can already.

Here is my current set up. long tube headers, high flow cats, K & N filter and SCT programmer. I have had my car dyno before and after.

260 rwhp which is about 305 ( stock for my car) give and take a little... meaning, my car dyno 261, and 258 rwhp.

So I did my homework and read crap like 20 wrhp gain, 15 hp with K& N, and wow 12 hp with a programmer! Holy crap batman! Look how much hp I can get from all this great stuff! WOW!

Ok, now for reality. People put this crap on their cars, riding around town, thinking.... pull it man....my stang is fast... I have mods! WOW!

Wrong....

First lets begin with my car....no it is not missing, no the MAF is not dirty, and no my car is not leaking hp out the exhaust ( sarcasm here) It has 90,000 miles meaning the engine is not worn out.


I had the k&N filter ( $200 dollars), SCT programmer ( $389.00), and ($700.00) high flow cats and long tube headers. ($200.00 dyno and sct tuning.) ($300 install high flow cats) Hey, that is $1800.00

Do the math again, that is half of a supercharger!

Here is what I got......ready...... 266 wrhp!

Save your money people. You want hp, get a supercharger, cams, heads, etc.

Now to end the responders but I got 30 hp out of mine etc. Yeah, yeah,I really feel that it all depends on the persons car. Meaning, the 1999+ are being very restricted engines. You can drill a hole in your exhaust and get more hp out of it ( sarcasm again)

First....For the 96 cobra 32 valve. Save you money, your 96 cobra is putting all she is going to. 98 and below, save you money mods are not going to help without a supercharger. Now you might find a 96 cobra pushing a little more than mine but it is the car not the mods.

Second....They are a B#$% to install, we had to drop the k member, 5 hour install and not cheap

Third.....my clutch went out. I had to either drop the k member to install or pry my long tube headers apart just to get the dang clutch in. What normally is a 3 hour install was a 5 hour install because of long tube headers.

Hope this help end the questions. Long tube header are crap. Save your money people. If you want more hp and torque open that wallet and spend it wisely..... On something else than long tube headers.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:53 PM   #2
PureStang
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for some reason, that seems like you dont have a very good tuner to only net you 5 hp for all of those mods. you should have atleast dyno'd around 280ish for all of those mods.

what i dont understand is your break down of your modifications. why would you pay an additional 300 to install high flow cats when you can get a midpipe with cats in it? if you had an offroad pipe then added the cats, i dont think that you should factor that into the cost.

now, you cannot expect to get too much out of just putting on long tube headers (with or without cats) and an air filter/tube. your missing the heads and cams. that can be another part of the system.

when you add heads/cams, supercharger, or nitrous, your going to get better gains with LTs than if you were to use stock manifolds.

install is a pita, but if yo u know what your doing and take your time, it should only take about 4 hours for a person that works on cars a good amount.

in the end, your going to net more gains after you do stuff to your car dealing with the airflow.
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:50 PM   #3
r3dn3ck
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seems like rambling sour grapes from someone that didn't select the right tuner, shop and parts combo.

Fact of the matter is LT headers must be properly designed to work with the intake and cam and heads and it's only going to be really really good in a very narrow RPM range. Getting the peak of that range to the exact spot where you need it is the challenge. Properly done LT's can net you 30hp or more very easily but that takes development and costs $$$.

What I would recommend is believe less of what you read, read a ****-ton more, take a class in engine mechanics so you understand the physics of the IC engine and then perhaps consider that 90K hard miles on a cobra is not just usually broke in... it's kinda tired in most cases. People are hard as hell on 4v's. Get a compression test.
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:23 AM   #4
Stephen4036
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someone wasted their money, next time spend the 1800 on beer.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:12 PM   #5
TonyBolton
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Local guy did BBK long tubes on his 96 Cobra. Went from 275whp(stock with o/r X-pipe) to 301 with just the headers and NO tune. He also picked up .3 in the 1/8th mile and 3mph.
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:42 PM   #6
88stang302ho
Default tranny swap on a cobra with long tubes...

i just bought a 96 cobra, and it has long tubes.
Well the damn tranny got stuck in reverse, so i had to drive around two miles in reverse, haha..
anywya, i have never worked on cobra's before, mainly ole school 5.0's.
do i have to take the long tubes out to get the tranny out, cause i have been messing with the damn thing all weekend, and the bell housing is hitting the tubes. i losened the passenger side long tube, did a lil better, but not that much.
any info would be appreciated.......
oooo and with a long tubes, tb, kn cold air, and the full bbk exhaust with chip, the car dyno'd at 315 to the rear wheels. they said that i could have got more if the temp outside wasn't 120......
anyway, let me know bout the tranny swap.....
and to add, does anyone know what kinda tranny i need to install, it has a borg warner, is that a T-5 or T-45. and does anyone have one for sale....thanks..
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:16 AM   #7
blownstang
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Who is the tuner? I think he is the problem. My little 2v gained 17rwhp and 13rwtq from a tune after the longtubes were installed. Didn't do any dyno runs before the longtubes, but the first run was 254/290 (no tuning). The last run was 271/303. From full exhaust and a tune your car shouldn't definitely see at least a good 20rwhp.
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:08 PM   #8
rich96cobra
Wink comments like this are the reason for the post

My car was tune by a PROFESSIONAL tuner that do race cars. A compression test was done before purchase. The 32 valve is pushing all she is going to push. I got most of my help from professionals after I got the mods. I have done my homework and that is the reason for the post. As I stated in my original post that cams, heads, supercharger was the only way to get true results.

Man, can some of you read?



So, lets get back for the reason for the post. Long tube headers, K&N filter, and tuner programmers for the 98 below are NOT going to get you the HP & Torque without major car engine changes. I have dynoed my car before and after. My post is not crap like some of the smarty comments that are not helpful at all.

So, SAVE your money people. 99 + you will get some real results again read the original post ( tired of typing for the uneducated)


I wish some of the negative posters here would email me some of there dyno charts with acutally results of there bolts ons. That is called being helpful I know from experience and from working on my own car what I got. I have dyno charts to prove my point. When people do a search my post maybe I can save some people some money.

For the helpful comments thank you....as far as getting the real gains after adding the supercharger, cams, etc. Yes, I already knew this...thank you.

The reason again for the post are for the people that have my style of car and want to know if long tube headers, programmer, etc are going to get you real gains. These are people that are on a limited budget thinking they can get true hp gains with simple bolt ons. The answer again is no......from my experience no you are not. from my acutal DYNO results no

thanks again for the polite and helpful comments. for the negative comments like get an education ( have one) buy a beer ( do not drink) get a professional tune or mechanic ( got one after the bolt ons) compression test ( got one) I have dyno result which most poster here do not...... blah blah, blah... whew!

Rich

Last edited by rich96cobra; 07-03-2008 at 02:11 PM..
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:10 PM   #9
rich96cobra
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My little 2v gained 17rwhp and 13rwtq from a tune after the longtubes were installed. Didn't do any dyno runs before the longtubes, but the first run was 254/290 (no tuning). The last run was 271/303. From full exhaust and a tune your car shouldn't definitely see at least a good 20rwhp.

yes, you have a newer car. Which in my opinion are very restrictive. That is why I stated in my original post that some of the newer models fair better with some bolt ons. I have heard the newer 2005 were getting 300 wrhp with small bolt ons.

Thank you,

Rich
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:21 PM   #10
rich96cobra
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Local guy did BBK long tubes on his 96 Cobra. Went from 275whp(stock with o/r X-pipe) to 301 with just the headers and NO tune. He also picked up .3 in the 1/8th mile and 3mph.

I have ask some professional tuners\dyno mustang guys here in nashville tn. They stated that they NEVER have seen a stock 96 cobra mustang get 275 wrhp on there particular dyno.

Now, I used a true mustang dyno, that give you more of a accurate hp result. What does this mean? It means that the mustang dyno give you true results. The most wrhp that my dyno place got on a stock 96 cobra was 270 but they also stated that ALL mustangs were different and that most all the mustang t cobra they dynoed were not that high but for the most part dyno lower than 260 which mine did a couple of time 259 wrhp one time

Rich
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:11 PM   #11
r3dn3ck
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just having 3ft long primaries doesn't make a longtube good for power. for LT's to show their shiny happy side they have to be tuned to work with your H/C/I. The B-headed cobras do reportedly suffer from excessively large intake runner volume which reduces velocity and negatively affects power. Betcha a little wilder cam and you'll be having a great time other than the cost of cams + install sucking hard. I still can't imagine how you got so little out of it. Have you done a compression test? You're not wrong in your reasoning but the cause and effect relationship is at question.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:15 PM   #12
Steeda97
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Blah. Way to introduce yourself.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:39 PM   #13
skylark
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On my '99GT I spent $2350. and got a .47 et and 5-6trap return and I was not pleased. With a 4V you have hope. I added 4.10's, converter, UDP's, TB/plenum, SCT tuner and a PYPES catted X-pipe/catback.
Since added an SVO intake and SHM #2730 cam. The last 2 slowed the car by .4 and with some tuning I got it .2 quicker than the previous best. 13.82 @ 101.8 MPH.
I stayed away from headers because of posts like yours. You need a good set of cams to wake the motor up and the headers will then work better with the set-up.
Give it some time and get a handhels SCT tuner, recommend Brenspeed.com. He did the retune that got the n.2 better than any previous best and that is impressive. Yeah the npi cars are harder to get power from but you have great potential, much more than I!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:40 PM   #14
skylark
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On my '99GT I spent $2350. and got a .47 et and 5-6trap return and I was not pleased. With a 4V you have hope. I added 4.10's, converter, UDP's, TB/plenum, SCT tuner and a PYPES catted X-pipe/catback.
Since added an SVO intake and SHM #2730 cam. The last 2 slowed the car by .4 and with some tuning I got it .2 quicker than the previous best. 13.82 @ 101.8 miles per hour.
I stayed away from headers because of posts like yours. You need a good set of cams to wake the motor up and the headers will then work better with the set-up.
Give it some time and get a handhels SCT tuner, recommend Brenspeed.com. He did the retune that got the n.2 better than any previous best and that is impressive. Yeah the npi cars are harder to get power from but you have great potential, much more than I!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:16 PM   #15
na svt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich96cobra View Post
Long tube headers are joke for the 96 generation stangs. For the 96 cobra owners, stay away. The little 4.6 liter 32 valve is kicking all it can already.First....For the 96 cobra 32 valve. Save you money, your 96 cobra is putting all she is going to. 98 and below, save you money mods are not going to help without a supercharger. Now you might find a 96 cobra pushing a little more than mine but it is the car not the mods.
First of all, I picked up 14rwhp and the same in torque from a LT install on my 96 Cobra. 30rwhp from LTs is unheard of unless there is a serious tune issue. The gains before peak were even greater at some points in the RPM range. As for the power gains, stock cobras dyno about 270-275, after LTs, SDD, short runner intake and a few other mods (stock longblock/cams) they can make more than 320rwhp. I can get over 300rwhp on probably 90% of the 96-98 Cobras without a shortrunner so these gains are not limited to a limited few cars.

The standard length long tube is a great length for a stock B headed motor and even a cammed one for that matter.

Now for your math, we all know that the CAIs/filters are not good for 12-15 rwhp as stated by their makers. Your problem looks like a tune issue and not the result of a restrictive motor, as proven by some stock head/intake/cam/block motors making over 300rwhp.

Seriously, PM me if you want to make some power with the stock cams. Also, I would love to see a dyno sheet with a/f and also a data log of the runs.

BTW, I made over 350rwhp with an unported B headed motor with very mild cams.

Last edited by na svt; 07-08-2008 at 05:13 AM..
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:50 AM   #16
skylark
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In the recent issue of MM & FF they did a 2V gain article. They got 30+whp rom headers. What they were a bit deceptive on was thaqt they left thee Comp XE274's in along with stocl NPI manifolds. Don't know if NPI exhaust mani's are worse than PI's but the whole article was npi against the parts MM & FF added! On page 148 it looks like they put the headers up against the npi manifolds and the XE274's and a TB/plenum added. Hardly fair IMHO! Who runs XE274's like they are the norm on a 2V street motor? Most keep the intake duration under 248*! My present 230 cams are a bit big for 4.10's and a 3200-3400rpm stall converter, can't spin the tires! I am however considering headers. I have had so many say that they WILL help. Dyno runs before and after any mods would be helpful! THX!
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:11 AM   #17
na svt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post
In the recent issue of MM & FF they did a 2V gain article. They got 30+whp rom headers. What they were a bit deceptive on was thaqt they left thee Comp XE274's in along with stocl NPI manifolds. Don't know if NPI exhaust mani's are worse than PI's but the whole article was npi against the parts MM & FF added! On page 148 it looks like they put the headers up against the npi manifolds and the XE274's and a TB/plenum added. Hardly fair IMHO! Who runs XE274's like they are the norm on a 2V street motor? Most keep the intake duration under 248*! My present 230 cams are a bit big for 4.10's and a 3200-3400rpm stall converter, can't spin the tires! I am however considering headers. I have had so many say that they WILL help. Dyno runs before and after any mods would be helpful! THX!
You're absolutely right, the manifolds are a restriction on a stock motor, but not a 30rwhp restriction. With the 274s they became even more of a restriction hence the reason for a huge gain.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:01 PM   #18
99MustangGTman
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cool
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:01 PM
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