Alright guys I'll apologize off the bat for the long post.

This past weekend (June 18th) I got my car tuned at Modular Powerhouse by Jerry Wroblewski from SCT.

The car has the following mods (also in sig):

WMS High Velocity Intake System /w 90* bend before MAF. Stock MAF
Steeda Underdrive Pulleys Stock Alternator pulley
BBK O/R H-Pipe
Dynomax Race Bullet Mufflers - custom catback
180* Thermostat
Cleaned IMRC's

4.10 FRPP Gears
Aluminum Driveshaft
Fidanza Steel Flywheel
11" D&D Performance SHD Clutch

Venom VCN 1000 Nitrous .055" Pill (80-100 shot) with ~900 psi bottle pressure on the run shown.

And here's the graph


It may be difficult to see...the Torque lines for the N/A and nitrous runs are both faint blue or red in color.

NOTES
1. The first and only N/A Dyno pull was made with a rather sketchy tach signal reading from the wire connected to the passenger side Coil Pack wiring harness. The tuner corrected it after the initial run. This may account for the poor reading on the Dyno graph. As you can see, at about 4200rpm's the graph cuts off...where the torque is just climbing and a reading of 279 lbft. is taken. The run was shut down at 6100 rpms. Peak HP with a stock runner length intake is usually at 6200-6250 rpms, but it may not have been more than that. I would like to have run it again...but I wasn't able to.

I was a little dissapointed with the baseline numbers, but that's with 1 step colder plugs and a .035" plug gap. It's about average for the mods I have...but I dunno what she puts down after Jerry's tune, as he immediately jumped on the nitrous tunes. So who knows what it makes now. Hopefully at least near the 290 hp range, but that's optimism.

2. The first pull on the nitrous the A/F went to 15:1. The Venom Computer controlled nitrous kit is supposed to have a safety "lean condition" shutdown...but the nitrous didn't shut off so Tim got out of it.

The successive pulls on the nitrous netted the same result the motor going lean. So Jerry asked me if I had bigger Fuel Jets. I told him the Venom kit was a dry kit...and that the system pulsed the stock fuel injectors for the extra fuel, and then the nitrous was injected proprtional to the A/F seen by the forward oxygen sensors.

Jerry then told me the Fuel enrichment function of this nitrous kit was "Like a lesbian...It ain't doing Dick." What a character, lol. Jerry then added fuel in the nitrous tune, to try and compensate for this effect. The car then made the 331 hp and 389 lb ft. run. This was alright....But again i've seen 100 shot nitrous Cobra's make 40-50 more hp and over 500 lb ft. of tq. So something is off.

Appearently I have Run out of Fuel Injector according to Jerry. Doing the calculations (which i've done before) are netting a HP limit of about 330 rwhp for 24 lb injectors. My problem now however is that it's only spraying about a 50-60 shot of nitrous because Jerry says I'm out of injector. I've played around with the calculations before...and if I use a 0.8 BSFC then the horsepower capabilities of the 24lb injectors is roughly 330rwhp. But using a lower number such as 0.6 BSFC yeilds quite a bit higher number. So my thoughts are with my car running nitrous I am approaching or exceeding max duty cycle on the stock 24 lb. squirters. I have seen posts in this forum of people running stock (24lb) injectors on Supercharged,BB ,or stroked applications with cams and heads etc. making in excess of 350-370rwhp on stock injectors. I just think that the Nature of a nitrous motor (in which most cases make much more tq.) has caused me to reach this point. So in will go the 42 lb injectors.

Today I spoke with Jose @ Venom Performance, and he was extremely helpful. Jose informed me of several things. The first, was that they do offer custom nitrous jets in the .060" (100 shot) and .065" (125 shot) Nozzle sizes. He did say also...that most cars (even domestic V8's) namely GT's can only run the black .050" "75 shot" nozzle safely. What happens when the larger nozzle is used is the motor tends to lean out, and the A/F goes erratic for a number of reasons...but mainly because the stock fuel system (pump and/or injectors) cannot supply enough fuel. So theoretically (and in most cases) throwing in the larger pill will net less HP, due to the fact that with an erratic and high A/F ratio on the .055" Clear nozzle, the Venom module isn't going to inject much nitrous because the motor leans out.

Mine and Jose's recommendations for anyone running the Venom VCN 1000 kit would be to just run the .050" Black nozzle (60-75 shot) until you can get the car on a dyno for tuning and to see what's up with the A/F. Not only will the nitrous be safer...but it will make more power on the smaller nozzle due to the fact that you get a full hit on the smaller pill.

The tech also told me that one it wasn't the first time someone told him a car was seeing a Lean condition under a nitrous hit on the dyno...when the Sensor for the Dyno was located in the tailpipe. In many instances (not mine :glasses1: ) cars with catalytic convertors do not provide an accurate A/F reading at the tailpipes...as the cats convert some HC's anyway...reducing the A/F and making it lean out. I do have a minor exhaust leak at the H-Pipe crossover, and maybe this was playing with my A/F. The best thing always when getting a car tuned is to get/use welded exhaust sensor bungs for the readings on a dyno run.

I am mailing my Venom Control module back to Venom-Performance, and Jose is going to check everything out on the bench to ensure proper operation. Then he is going to customize the module to provide more fuel enrichment...which will inherently increase the proportion of nitrous injected. I am also having two custom nozzles made - .060" 100 shot nozzle. and a .065" 125 shot nozzle. I know however, that this will require a tune.

In conclusion...I've run out of injector. So I am going to probably go with 42 lbers, and check into seeing if it's possible to just mail the chip off and get the 42 lb injector file loaded and be able to plug the chip back up and keep on trucking while I change out the nitrous jets etc. to try and find the missing power on the spray. Then the next hurdle I believe I will encounter is pegging the stock MAF, as I hope to make close to 400hp/500 tq after sorting out the injectors and nitrous module/jets.

Umm, that's not it but until I get the video uploaded everyone chew on this with me Please... :icon_stud

Philip K.

 

I dont like reading a books,I always wait until a movie version comes out so let me know when you have the vid :read: by the way have you posted any pics yet of your stang.

 

With those injectors, a focus fuel pump, or the steeda one, wouldnt be a bad idea to buddy the injectors.

 

You're right...i do need to worry about the rest of the fuel system as well.
The 96 and 97 Cobra's and GT's utilize a Return style fuel system...which is acutally an upgrade for the 98 + later mustangs. The focus/aviator/03 Cobra pumps only work on returnless style fuel systems. But I forgot to post that I have an intank Walbro GSS 307 non High-Pressure 255lph fuel pump going in along with a Kirban Adj. FPR. This should help support the car until the 400 hp mark, where i'll have to upgrade rails and probably another inline pump, and a -6an feed line with the stock line as the return.

Here are some Pics of my car...with video to come this weekend after my friend gets it edited and loaded onto his computer (he's having a bit of trouble with that.)
My car is also listed on the Mustangtuning.com Customer's Rides page.

I'll keep ya'll updated.

 

I love that Color, I painted my SVO the same color. By the way max size of Videosif you want to post on this forum is about 900 kb.

 

Great info in this post. This is the main reason why I tend to question a/f data from a dyno. If you think or have an exhaust leak in your mid pipe, then it is highly likely that you will seen a leaner condition in the tail pipe.

I just got my bottle filled and plan on spraying tomorrow. I think I will drop back one nozzle size until I get my injectors and fuel pump installed.

 

Great info Lightning247! Iam glad you put that info out. You cant say "I didnt tell you so" when it comes to the nossle sizes? first thing though Iam really skeptical about your injectors (24lbs) running out? Iam still running my 19lbs. with stock tune and though my car ran very lean w/ 80shot silver nossle it put down 323.? rwhp and 416.? rwtq Like yours though mine did not shut off either? This Kit is tricky though cause even though it didnt shut down It probably didnt give me the full shot cause Ive noticed that at the track with my ETs. But anyways I was told my fuel pump couldnt keep the preassure up so I upgraded to the SVT Focus pump. I havent dynoed it yet but I did take it to the track and even put the .060 nossle = 100shot. The car was violent on the 100 shot of the line Launched @ 2500 slowly got into the gas and broke the tires loose in 1st, 2nd and 3rd, it felt awesome BUT the Nitrous would cut off in 4th at the top end every run (3 runs) I noticed my A/F indicator showing a lean condition at the top gear almost every run! Iam planning on stepping up to 24lb or 30lb inj. as soon as i can afford the tune? Thats why I felt skeptical about your injectrs running out at those power levels? I know every car is a little different but its not making much sense to run out at that power level? Maybe your module does have a lot to do with it :icon_scra Keep us posted, your post was very informative.

Will

 

Thanks guys...and Will for posting comparative information. I'm not sure exactly what's going on with the nitrous here....I think that the nature of the DOHC motor combined with the nitrous is maxing out duty cycle earlier than in some other applications. Either way, I know i must have new injectors to see the full nitrous experience...so there going in soon. Then we will see what is going on with her.

You're numbers look very good...especially the torque. I'd say some 30 lb injectors would get you where you need to be...and they aren't that expensive, and shouldn't harm daily driveability when you run N/A on the street.

What times did you run at the track btw? Just curious.

I've sent my module off to venom to get it checked out...and customized. Then I'll throw the big injectors and pump at it with the 125 nozzle and we'll see what this Venom kit is really made of. Hopefully i'll break the 400/500 mark as that seems to be the norm for a dry kit Cobra with other systems. I feel like there's alot of room to grow still...just have to get the kinks worked out.

Keep us posted though. The focus pumps and injectors should nearly let you max out the 125 nozzle once you get it tuned.

Philip K. (Video to come early next week)

 

thats why nitrous sucks. you have to post a novel everytime your car doesnt make any power

 

...or when you run 13's with a blower....lol sorry, couldnt resist.

 

Why you got to be a hater :boxing: lol.

BTW Lightning247
I think I posted this on your other reply or should I say post: My best up here in Denver, Colorado has been a 13.3 @ 106 this altitude kills cars but a couple years ago I ran @ Kent Washington w/80 shot, BFG DRs, 3;73s under drive pulleys, Mac cat-back OH yeah!! cant forget K&N filter ( :laughing1 ) and pulled a 12.6 @ 110 first and only pass w/Nitrous! now I have the Mods in my signature but believe it or not I havent been able to get a good run in.

 

im just messin with ya nitrous is powerful stuff just a tad more complicated