Max 4.6 while maintain Boost Cap.

stang671 · 02-13-2007, 12:32 PM

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone knows the amount of hp a 4.6 2v can produce and still maintain the capability to use boost....the I have 97Gt that and i'm doing the upper PI setup and I was wondering about the rest of the engine...i understand to put in the Forge internals and all but i was wonding about the cam setup and etc...i also understand that boost and all depends on compression...and i know that most hp cars N/A have high compressions so I was wondering if anyone has put on together a great combination that works.....thanks for taking the time to read this...

r3dn3ck · 02-13-2007, 01:59 PM

You'll want to do a lot more research to fully understand what's happening.

First, a PI swapped 96-98 motor is probably not a good candidate for much boost unless the bottom end is rebuilt with lower compression pistons and forged rods. 10:1 would be the starting compression and while our modular motors do very well on paper with 10:1 and 8-10lbs of boost that sort of combo usually requires race gas to avoid detonation.

There is no limit to how much hp your motor can make before you add boost. It's not written anywhere. The TOTAL output of your motor including boost, effective compression ratio, cam selection, etc... is a little important but the build of the bottom end and the tune are the secret sauce for longevity.

If you're going to PI swap it and add boost, then transplant a 99-04 motor complete and then add ~8lbs of boost with a nice conservative blower cam (VT stage 1-2). In any event I don't generally like boost on unbuilt motors. It's just asking for trouble.

With just a PI swap you should see from 260-300rwhp on a decent tune. That's plenty for most people, if you need more try a 75hp dry shot of nitrous. At least you can turn that off when you don't need it.

*03gtmustang* · 02-13-2007, 02:15 PM

Max on stock internals is ~400rwhp.

stang671 · 02-13-2007, 05:20 PM

I understand that the stock internals can only handle bout 400rwhp that's why i was stating that I was going to use forged internals......i'm thinking about adding a 2.1 KB ontop once it's all done...so i'm trying to get the most out of my N/A then having the KB so I was wondering what do you think is the best way to go about having that hp and still being able to run decent boost and hp....thanks for taking the time to read this...

*03gtmustang* · 02-13-2007, 05:37 PM

Ok, built long block from Tim @ Modular Powerhouse. Ported PI heads, custom cams, built iron or aluminum block. The only thing holding you back then is the fuel system.

For the fuel you could go with CRP rails, GT40 dual pumps in cobra tank with dual upgraded FDPM's and fuel lines. Another option is dual focus pumps and larger fuel lines.

All depends on how much power you wanna push and the amount of money youve got.

Other choices for the long block would be Steen Racing, Fox Lake, or VT Engines.

stang671 · 02-13-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtmustang

Ok, ported heads and custom cams from Tim @ Modular Powerhouse. Drop the compression down a bit. The only thing holding you back then is the fuel system.

For the fuel you could go with CRP rails, GT40 dual pumps in cobra tank with dual upgraded FDPM's and fuel lines. Another option is dual focus pumps and larger fuel lines.

All depends on how much power you wanna push.

I have ported PI heads already...other then that I'm just replacing all the internals....my intial goal is 550 rwhp..i was hoping to get that on pump gas (91 CA) but I was told that's not possiable and I could only get about 500 rwhp so i'm kind of stuck on that....even though i'm sure 500rwhp is plenty for street/strip (but mostly street) I just want to be able to beat 90% of what I line up against espically those imports cause i know their much lighter....and then I want to crank up the boost to 20 if i need to....but that is my goal...and I do have access to 100 octane if need be at $6.99 gal...LOL...thanks for taking the time to read this....

*03gtmustang* · 02-13-2007, 05:46 PM

Who told you that you cant get 500rwhp on pump gas? Its 100% possible. 100 octane would give you even more. Since youve already got the PI heads ported, Id get some custom cams from miles per hour, and a built block from them. http://modularpowerhouse.com/product...f43462ce43593d
http://modularpowerhouse.com/index.p...f43462ce43593d

MattJ · 02-13-2007, 05:48 PM

Ever consider a 4v 4.6 swap with a twin turbo setup? 700rwhp is baby steps on a 4v setup.

stang671 · 02-13-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattJ

Ever consider a 4v 4.6 swap with a twin turbo setup? 700rwhp is baby steps on a 4v setup.

I was told and i read on different forums that it's not worth it to change out a 2v with a 4v with all the emissions and stuff i'd have to do...and I'm military so i have to keep the car legal (CA) other wise i'd go TT....thanks for taking the time to read this...

stang671 · 02-13-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtmustang

Who told you that you cant get 500rwhp on pump gas? Its 100% possible. 100 octane would give you even more. Since youve already got the PI heads ported, Id get some custom cams from miles per hour, and a built block from them. http://modularpowerhouse.com/product...f43462ce43593d
http://modularpowerhouse.com/index.p...f43462ce43593d

I was orignally going to stay with 91 and try to get 500rwhp with that octane...but the shop said that it can't hold those horses....and would it be cheaper to buy the block or have my rebuilt with forged internals...thanks for taking the time to read this...

*03gtmustang* · 02-13-2007, 06:42 PM

You can get 500rwhp with 91 octane. Just buy the short block from miles per hour, then sell your short block. If you keep your stock block then youll still need to machine it and stuff.

spike_africa · 02-14-2007, 06:08 AM

Turbo 2v can make tons of power. thats the road i would go if i had a built short block and ported heads.

stang671 · 02-14-2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike_africa

Turbo 2v can make tons of power. thats the road i would go if i had a built short block and ported heads.

I can't go turbo cause i'm military....and i have to stay legal to be going back and forth on base....i can't take the risk of my car being searched and then they taking my car cause it's not street legal and defin...not base legal...thanks for taking the time to read this....

01GTBlown · 02-14-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang671

I can't go turbo cause i'm military....and i have to stay legal to be going back and forth on base....i can't take the risk of my car being searched and then they taking my car cause it's not street legal and defin...not base legal...thanks for taking the time to read this....

Not street legal or base legal? What? You can bolt a turbo on and still be street legal, i dont know what the base rules are but this doesnt make any since.

r3dn3ck · 02-14-2007, 07:25 AM

you're in california... damn that changes lots of things.

stick your compression at 9:1 and you can run 12-14lbs without having too many tuning nightmares. I'd stop at 12. make sure you build the hell out of the motor.

stang671 · 02-14-2007, 09:01 PM

thanks ill try and do that...i'm not trying to find where i can get a good built motor and a good deal at....03gtmustang stated to get one from miles per hour so i'm going to look into that...and some other places if you can recommend a place then that would be great...and 9:1 is ok with CA 91-octane right?...thanks for taking the time to read this....

r3dn3ck · 02-15-2007, 09:16 AM

9:1 will allow you to run quite a bit of boost without losing too much low rpm and part throttle grunt. I'd probably stop at 12lbs of boost non-intercooled or 14lbs intercooled but I'm the conservative type. A side effect of dropping compression is it's usually easier to pass the sniffer with lower compression than higher.

What base are you at? If you're in the SF/Sacto area I can point you to some boards where they can provide much more detailed information and help that's specific to california and Smog Check II.

As for engines... MMR, miles per hour, VT have all been doing fairly well. I have not heard many complaints about any of them. CHP on the other hand I have seen some modulars fail at the main bearings so I'd leave them to the pushrod motors where they've been doing great for a long time.

stang671 · 02-15-2007, 01:12 PM

No i'm stationed down in San diego...im thinking about just getting my block rebuilt and going from there with all forged internals and putting the p/p PI heads and the PI intake ontop....ok the 9 it is...the next thing i have to do is find a good tranny (auto) and a desent rear-end to handle the hp...thanks for taking the time to read this...

*03gtmustang* · 02-15-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang671

No i'm stationed down in San diego...im thinking about just getting my block rebuilt and going from there with all forged internals and putting the p/p PI heads and the PI intake ontop....ok the 9 it is...the next thing i have to do is find a good tranny (auto) and a desent rear-end to handle the hp...thanks for taking the time to read this...

Contact Darrin @ www.bc-automotive for your auto needs. For the rear, Id go with Moser 31 spline axles without studs and a 03/04 Cobra posi or Eaton posi. What gears are you running? While you're doing the rear end work, Id also weld the axle tubes and torque boxes.

I can recommend some suspension stuff after I know how far you want to take this car.

stang671 · 02-16-2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03gtmustang

Contact Darrin @ www.bc-automotive for your auto needs. For the rear, Id go with Moser 31 spline axles without studs and a 03/04 Cobra posi or Eaton posi. What gears are you running? While you're doing the rear end work, Id also weld the axle tubes and torque boxes.

I can recommend some suspension stuff after I know how far you want to take this car.

I was thinking about getting the strange rear-end setup...and going with 4:10 I was told that would be a good setup for a KB...but what do you think about that...then I was going to get the PA transmission...those are just thoughts on that though...and then after I get all that done I was going to go with the Max...setup...thanks for taking the time to read this.....

r3dn3ck · 02-16-2007, 06:50 AM

max is a funny term... it doesn't apply or even exist. apart from that...

whatever you get... tell the guy at the sales desk that you plan on spitting 500+rwhp through it and that you'd like it built to handle that. After that... good luck. I'd recommend adopting a bi-monthly maintenance regime that includes thorough inspections of all the things you change if you're gunna daily drive it. Power costs maintenance.

stang671 · 02-16-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

max is a funny term... it doesn't apply or even exist. apart from that...

whatever you get... tell the guy at the sales desk that you plan on spitting 500+rwhp through it and that you'd like it built to handle that. After that... good luck. I'd recommend adopting a bi-monthly maintenance regime that includes thorough inspections of all the things you change if you're gunna daily drive it. Power costs maintenance.

I appoligize i was refering to Maximum Motorsports...and thanks for the Luck...maybe one day I'll see you when I go home (the Bay area)...thanks for taking the time to read this....

02-13-2007, 12:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
stang671 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 61	Max 4.6 while maintain Boost Cap. Hey, I was wondering if anyone knows the amount of hp a 4.6 2v can produce and still maintain the capability to use boost....the I have 97Gt that and i'm doing the upper PI setup and I was wondering about the rest of the engine...i understand to put in the Forge internals and all but i was wonding about the cam setup and etc...i also understand that boost and all depends on compression...and i know that most hp cars N/A have high compressions so I was wondering if anyone has put on together a great combination that works.....thanks for taking the time to read this...

02-13-2007, 02:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,241	Max on stock internals is ~400rwhp. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-13-2007, 05:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,241	Ok, built long block from Tim @ Modular Powerhouse. Ported PI heads, custom cams, built iron or aluminum block. The only thing holding you back then is the fuel system. For the fuel you could go with CRP rails, GT40 dual pumps in cobra tank with dual upgraded FDPM's and fuel lines. Another option is dual focus pumps and larger fuel lines. All depends on how much power you wanna push and the amount of money youve got. Other choices for the long block would be Steen Racing, Fox Lake, or VT Engines. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-13-2007, 05:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,241	Who told you that you cant get 500rwhp on pump gas? Its 100% possible. 100 octane would give you even more. Since youve already got the PI heads ported, Id get some custom cams from miles per hour, and a built block from them. http://modularpowerhouse.com/product...f43462ce43593d http://modularpowerhouse.com/index.p...f43462ce43593d __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-13-2007, 05:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
MattJ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 10,243	Ever consider a 4v 4.6 swap with a twin turbo setup? 700rwhp is baby steps on a 4v setup. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT Premium - Mineral Grey

02-13-2007, 01:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,858	You'll want to do a lot more research to fully understand what's happening. First, a PI swapped 96-98 motor is probably not a good candidate for much boost unless the bottom end is rebuilt with lower compression pistons and forged rods. 10:1 would be the starting compression and while our modular motors do very well on paper with 10:1 and 8-10lbs of boost that sort of combo usually requires race gas to avoid detonation. There is no limit to how much hp your motor can make before you add boost. It's not written anywhere. The TOTAL output of your motor including boost, effective compression ratio, cam selection, etc... is a little important but the build of the bottom end and the tune are the secret sauce for longevity. If you're going to PI swap it and add boost, then transplant a 99-04 motor complete and then add ~8lbs of boost with a nice conservative blower cam (VT stage 1-2). In any event I don't generally like boost on unbuilt motors. It's just asking for trouble. With just a PI swap you should see from 260-300rwhp on a decent tune. That's plenty for most people, if you need more try a 75hp dry shot of nitrous. At least you can turn that off when you don't need it.

02-13-2007, 05:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
stang671 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 61	I understand that the stock internals can only handle bout 400rwhp that's why i was stating that I was going to use forged internals......i'm thinking about adding a 2.1 KB ontop once it's all done...so i'm trying to get the most out of my N/A then having the KB so I was wondering what do you think is the best way to go about having that hp and still being able to run decent boost and hp....thanks for taking the time to read this...

02-13-2007, 06:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
03gtmustang Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern Va Posts: 3,241	You can get 500rwhp with 91 octane. Just buy the short block from miles per hour, then sell your short block. If you keep your stock block then youll still need to machine it and stuff. __________________ D&D Auto Detailing -Dan

02-14-2007, 06:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
spike_africa Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 7,200	Turbo 2v can make tons of power. thats the road i would go if i had a built short block and ported heads. __________________ Dustin 2002 GT Mustang 5-Speed Drag Radials,Sprayed,Powershifted WOOO HOOOO!

02-14-2007, 07:25 AM	#15 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,858	you're in california... damn that changes lots of things. stick your compression at 9:1 and you can run 12-14lbs without having too many tuning nightmares. I'd stop at 12. make sure you build the hell out of the motor.

02-14-2007, 09:01 PM	#16 (permalink)
stang671 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 61	thanks ill try and do that...i'm not trying to find where i can get a good built motor and a good deal at....03gtmustang stated to get one from miles per hour so i'm going to look into that...and some other places if you can recommend a place then that would be great...and 9:1 is ok with CA 91-octane right?...thanks for taking the time to read this....

02-15-2007, 09:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,858	9:1 will allow you to run quite a bit of boost without losing too much low rpm and part throttle grunt. I'd probably stop at 12lbs of boost non-intercooled or 14lbs intercooled but I'm the conservative type. A side effect of dropping compression is it's usually easier to pass the sniffer with lower compression than higher. What base are you at? If you're in the SF/Sacto area I can point you to some boards where they can provide much more detailed information and help that's specific to california and Smog Check II. As for engines... MMR, miles per hour, VT have all been doing fairly well. I have not heard many complaints about any of them. CHP on the other hand I have seen some modulars fail at the main bearings so I'd leave them to the pushrod motors where they've been doing great for a long time.

02-15-2007, 01:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
stang671 Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 61	No i'm stationed down in San diego...im thinking about just getting my block rebuilt and going from there with all forged internals and putting the p/p PI heads and the PI intake ontop....ok the 9 it is...the next thing i have to do is find a good tranny (auto) and a desent rear-end to handle the hp...thanks for taking the time to read this...

02-16-2007, 06:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 6,858	max is a funny term... it doesn't apply or even exist. apart from that... whatever you get... tell the guy at the sales desk that you plan on spitting 500+rwhp through it and that you'd like it built to handle that. After that... good luck. I'd recommend adopting a bi-monthly maintenance regime that includes thorough inspections of all the things you change if you're gunna daily drive it. Power costs maintenance.

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