A non-political debate. Will this plane take off?
#31
12-06-2005, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by stang00
this is the dumbest thread ever
and it is pissing me the hell off, cause nobody will PM me the answer
#32
12-06-2005, 04:47 PM
Jack Touched Me...I Cried
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tallahassee, FL/ Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 3,751
OMG stop posting so damn much! Relax bro! just readin through all that makes me not care nemore! LoL... and yes the jet could take offthe tires would just be going extremely fast...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
#33
12-06-2005, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by Grimmz
OMG stop posting so damn much! Relax bro! just readin through all that makes me not care nemore! LoL... and yes the jet could take offthe tires would just be going extremely fast...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
damnit now i am thinking about it agian and i am even more confussed than before, hahaah
#34
12-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by hockeyplayerhere
well it is a damn plane, it better have wings and wind flaps, otherwise it wouldnt be a plane....it would be a really big car
My debate is...the plane needs to actually be going though the air at x MPH. in order for the wing flaps to help LIFT the plane off the ground.I cant see a STILL plane lifting from a conveyor belt with no airspeed.....
#35
12-06-2005, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by V8 SyndicateZ
until i see the "ANSWER" my theory is correct and accurate.
My debate is...the plane needs to actually be going though the air at x MPH. in order for the wing flaps to help LIFT the plane off the ground.I cant see a STILL plane lifting from a conveyor belt with no airspeed.....
My debate is...the plane needs to actually be going though the air at x MPH. in order for the wing flaps to help LIFT the plane off the ground.I cant see a STILL plane lifting from a conveyor belt with no airspeed.....
i give up.
#36
12-06-2005, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Grimmz
OMG stop posting so damn much! Relax bro! just readin through all that makes me not care nemore! LoL... and yes the jet could take offthe tires would just be going extremely fast...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
sept idk if springs also ment that the conveyor belt would keep speeding up countering the speed the engines created...if so, then no...
damnit...lol
Springstand PM me the answer.
#38
12-06-2005, 05:02 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by V8 SyndicateZ
ya..he did say that the belt would go faster if the planes wheels went faster...resulting in a still plane going no where......
damnit...lol
Springstand PM me the answer.
damnit...lol
Springstand PM me the answer.
#39
12-06-2005, 05:04 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Here's an analogy
you have a regular engine car, you put it on firctionless ice, you put it FULL THROTTLE into reverse, it wont go anywhere, put a rocket on the top of the car, it will still go foward regardless of whatever the tires are doing
you have a regular engine car, you put it on firctionless ice, you put it FULL THROTTLE into reverse, it wont go anywhere, put a rocket on the top of the car, it will still go foward regardless of whatever the tires are doing
#41
12-06-2005, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by SpringsStang
Here's an analogy
you have a regular engine car, you put it on firctionless ice, you put it FULL THROTTLE into reverse, it wont go anywhere, put a rocket on the top of the car, it will still go foward regardless of whatever the tires are doing
you have a regular engine car, you put it on firctionless ice, you put it FULL THROTTLE into reverse, it wont go anywhere, put a rocket on the top of the car, it will still go foward regardless of whatever the tires are doing
#42
12-06-2005, 05:36 PM
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You guys are right that a plane needs forward motion to take off, and if it where held in place somehow it could never get off the ground.
The trick is, the plane doesnt use its wheels to gain speed like a car. The wheels are free turning. The forward thrust comes from the jet's engines. The answer is: the plane will take off like normal, except that the wheels will be turning twice as fast.
Yes the wheels and conveyor belt would add some impeding friction. And if the engines were off, the plane would move with the conveyor belt. But that force from friction is extremely small compared to the force of the jet engine, and does not scale at all with the speed of the plane. The fact that the conveyor belt would increase its speed would do nothing except spin the wheels faster.
The trick is, the plane doesnt use its wheels to gain speed like a car. The wheels are free turning. The forward thrust comes from the jet's engines. The answer is: the plane will take off like normal, except that the wheels will be turning twice as fast.
Yes the wheels and conveyor belt would add some impeding friction. And if the engines were off, the plane would move with the conveyor belt. But that force from friction is extremely small compared to the force of the jet engine, and does not scale at all with the speed of the plane. The fact that the conveyor belt would increase its speed would do nothing except spin the wheels faster.
#43
12-06-2005, 05:37 PM
The plane would lift off inside the hanger. Groundspeed(as represented by the belt) is unimportant to the plane, which responds only to it's speed through the air.
The conveyor can only move if the plane moves(both relative to a fixed point on the ground beside the conveyor).
The conveyor can only move at the same speed as the plane,but in the opposite direction.
When the plane reaches liftoff speed the conveyor will be moving the same speed in the opposite direction.
The wheels of the plane will see twice that speed(plane+conveyor) but the relatively weak force of the added friction of the wheels will not greatly affect the acceleration of the aircraft and it will lift off in a normal manner and distance.
To help you understand, replace the wheels of the plane with a hovercraft skirt and air system. When powered up the friction between the plane and belt would be zero no matter how fast the belt moved. You would see that the plane would have no impediment to reaching flight speed. Put the wheels back on and the friction would be 4 times the normal amount(but still insignifigent to the power of the plane) due to the square law(double the speed(plane speed+belt speed)=2 times2 or 4 times the friction).
The conveyor can only move if the plane moves(both relative to a fixed point on the ground beside the conveyor).
The conveyor can only move at the same speed as the plane,but in the opposite direction.
When the plane reaches liftoff speed the conveyor will be moving the same speed in the opposite direction.
The wheels of the plane will see twice that speed(plane+conveyor) but the relatively weak force of the added friction of the wheels will not greatly affect the acceleration of the aircraft and it will lift off in a normal manner and distance.
To help you understand, replace the wheels of the plane with a hovercraft skirt and air system. When powered up the friction between the plane and belt would be zero no matter how fast the belt moved. You would see that the plane would have no impediment to reaching flight speed. Put the wheels back on and the friction would be 4 times the normal amount(but still insignifigent to the power of the plane) due to the square law(double the speed(plane speed+belt speed)=2 times2 or 4 times the friction).
#47
12-06-2005, 05:54 PM
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Yer all dumb, ok?
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
#48
12-06-2005, 05:58 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by slappy
Yer all dumb, ok?
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
go back and read the question...
it clearly states that the plane IS MOVING in one direction and the CONVEYOR (which is the entire runway, big *** conveyer) is moving the other way...
Now we have a plane heading east and the conveyor west... the whells spin independent and move 2x faster than if the the coneyor wasnt there...
#49
12-06-2005, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by SpringsStang
hockeyplayer has been on the money since the beginning
my answers were right from what he said
#51
12-06-2005, 06:06 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by slappy
Yer all dumb, ok?
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
this whole wheel speed thing all that.
It is wind that causes the lift, the speed of the wheels or the conveyer are irrellevant.
You can have a plane traveling 1000 miles an hour, if it is going the same speed and direction as the wind it will drop like a rock.
Forget the conveyer belt, it would do nothing.
however, if you have a fan capable of generating enough wind force, you can put that on a plane that is stationary and it WILL take off.
This is a trick question. Scientifically NO, you put a plane on a conveyer belt it will not take off, wind is required. It doesent matter the speed of the wheels or the speed of the conveyer if they cancel it out, the fact is the plane is not movine, and it is now wheel speed but movement that it requires to get enough lift to take off.
However, im sure springstang will enlighten us all with the answer to a trick question. Then were all gonna sit around and say "oh yah, thats right, i read it 50 freakin times and didnt read it the "correct" way.
However, scientifically, NO, there is no mention of any wind generating machine. A wind machine CAN make planes lift off the ground without any forward movement.
the purpose was to have you focused on wheel speed, which doesnt matter
#52
12-06-2005, 06:07 PM
Jack Touched Me...I Cried
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tallahassee, FL/ Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 3,751
Originally Posted by hockeyplayerhere
my answers were right from what he said
However, the way Springs worded the question is to ambiguous, If the plane is able to move forward then of course it will eventually gain enough wind speed over the wings to lift off, if it's in a hanger on a dyno thing then now...but why would you even do something like that the engines would break loose and shoot outa the hanger LoL...
#53
12-06-2005, 06:24 PM
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by SpringsStang
its not a trick question, the plane will take off plain and simple, its physics, slappy you suck at life
the purpose was to have you focused on wheel speed, which doesnt matter
the purpose was to have you focused on wheel speed, which doesnt matter
to make another anaology, magic tricks are deception, they mislead you into focusing on the wrong thing, that is why they are called Magic Tricks, instead of Magic.
#54
12-06-2005, 06:26 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by slappy
Of course it is a trick question, the question was designed in order to mislead the reader into focusing thier attention on something else.. So yeah, dumbass, it is a trick question.
to make another anaology, magic tricks are deception, they mislead you into focusing on the wrong thing, that is why they are called Magic Tricks, instead of Magic.
to make another anaology, magic tricks are deception, they mislead you into focusing on the wrong thing, that is why they are called Magic Tricks, instead of Magic.
#56
12-06-2005, 06:28 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by slappy
Yeah, she makes yer jimmy look biger than a thimble. Not even david copperfield could pull that one off.
#57
12-06-2005, 06:30 PM
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by SpringsStang
yeah, ud know about that wouldnt ya
But she wasnt just making fun of ya, she actually feels real real real bad for ya.
#58
12-06-2005, 06:33 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 10,698
Originally Posted by slappy
Yeah dude, she got home and was just DYING of laughter, it took her 20 min to catch her breath enough to spread the story. <rofl>
But she wasnt just making fun of ya, she actually feels real real real bad for ya.
But she wasnt just making fun of ya, she actually feels real real real bad for ya.
rofl this is so stupid and pointless
#60
12-06-2005, 07:50 PM
I understand how the plane will take off. But question, will the plane go the same distance on the conveyor belt when taking off as it would on a normal runway?