Gun collecters in here need some help
#32
12-17-2006, 08:42 AM
I'm a certified 3 weapon Combat Master (means I spent enough thousands of dollars on training and I can shoot under pressure) and I've done my share of training for families/women/cops/military (meaning I train them... and yes I will train you if you're willing to pay).
First, shotguns make less than ideal home defense weapons. They do have to be aimed at the ranges you'll see indoors, they explode walls if you miss (killing whoever is on the other side) and there are unavoidable tactical problems with using such a long gun inside a structure.
In my experience, the best weapon is one you feel comfortable using to murder an intruder when you're nearly asleep, completely naked, very scared and confused. Typically this means the best gun is something instinctive to use, not overly powerful, that can be point-aimed at 20ft distances, can support +P+ frangible ammo (MagSafe, Glaser Blue, Glaser Silver, BeeSafe) without damage to the weapon.
This being the case, the gun I would equip a new owner with as a defense and plinking gun would be a Ruger GP100 based .357mag (NO STAINLESS FOR HOME DEFENSE WEAPONS unless you live in a swamp or the tropics). You can use .38special ammo (cheap as hell) for fun, train with inexpensive full power 357 loads, and defend/hunt with the frangible loads I listed above.
It is imperitive that you be competently trained. A gun used for home defense is more likely to cause collateral damage than to smoke an intruder. It's a problem of tactical awareness meeting abject terror and accuracy suffers as a result. When you're properly trained you'll fight how you trained.
Lastly, I have seen it proved numerous times but it bears repeating here:
During a crisis you will NOT rise to the occasion but you WILL default to your level of training. I've experienced it personally, and seen it live enough times to say it's 100% true.
In auto pistols, glock is home defense. No buttons, levers or BS... just a really good gun that shoots every time and hold a lot of bullets. I do not recommend an auto for a home defense gun. I have lots of them but I still use a wheel gun for home defense (my wife uses an M1 Carbine with 30 rounds of my handloads using frangible loads... she doesn't like the muzzle blast of the .357 and her place is behind the front lines unless I'm gone).
First, shotguns make less than ideal home defense weapons. They do have to be aimed at the ranges you'll see indoors, they explode walls if you miss (killing whoever is on the other side) and there are unavoidable tactical problems with using such a long gun inside a structure.
In my experience, the best weapon is one you feel comfortable using to murder an intruder when you're nearly asleep, completely naked, very scared and confused. Typically this means the best gun is something instinctive to use, not overly powerful, that can be point-aimed at 20ft distances, can support +P+ frangible ammo (MagSafe, Glaser Blue, Glaser Silver, BeeSafe) without damage to the weapon.
This being the case, the gun I would equip a new owner with as a defense and plinking gun would be a Ruger GP100 based .357mag (NO STAINLESS FOR HOME DEFENSE WEAPONS unless you live in a swamp or the tropics). You can use .38special ammo (cheap as hell) for fun, train with inexpensive full power 357 loads, and defend/hunt with the frangible loads I listed above.
It is imperitive that you be competently trained. A gun used for home defense is more likely to cause collateral damage than to smoke an intruder. It's a problem of tactical awareness meeting abject terror and accuracy suffers as a result. When you're properly trained you'll fight how you trained.
Lastly, I have seen it proved numerous times but it bears repeating here:
During a crisis you will NOT rise to the occasion but you WILL default to your level of training. I've experienced it personally, and seen it live enough times to say it's 100% true.
In auto pistols, glock is home defense. No buttons, levers or BS... just a really good gun that shoots every time and hold a lot of bullets. I do not recommend an auto for a home defense gun. I have lots of them but I still use a wheel gun for home defense (my wife uses an M1 Carbine with 30 rounds of my handloads using frangible loads... she doesn't like the muzzle blast of the .357 and her place is behind the front lines unless I'm gone).
#33
12-17-2006, 09:04 AM
I'm a certified 3 weapon Combat Master (means I spent enough thousands of dollars on training and I can shoot under pressure) and I've done my share of training for families/women/cops/military (meaning I train them... and yes I will train you if you're willing to pay).
First, shotguns make less than ideal home defense weapons. They do have to be aimed at the ranges you'll see indoors, they explode walls if you miss (killing whoever is on the other side) and there are unavoidable tactical problems with using such a long gun inside a structure.
In my experience, the best weapon is one you feel comfortable using to murder an intruder when you're nearly asleep, completely naked, very scared and confused. Typically this means the best gun is something instinctive to use, not overly powerful, that can be point-aimed at 20ft distances, can support +P+ frangible ammo (MagSafe, Glaser Blue, Glaser Silver, BeeSafe) without damage to the weapon.
This being the case, the gun I would equip a new owner with as a defense and plinking gun would be a Ruger GP100 based .357mag (NO STAINLESS FOR HOME DEFENSE WEAPONS unless you live in a swamp or the tropics). You can use .38special ammo (cheap as hell) for fun, train with inexpensive full power 357 loads, and defend/hunt with the frangible loads I listed above.
It is imperitive that you be competently trained. A gun used for home defense is more likely to cause collateral damage than to smoke an intruder. It's a problem of tactical awareness meeting abject terror and accuracy suffers as a result. When you're properly trained you'll fight how you trained.
Lastly, I have seen it proved numerous times but it bears repeating here:
During a crisis you will NOT rise to the occasion but you WILL default to your level of training. I've experienced it personally, and seen it live enough times to say it's 100% true.
In auto pistols, glock is home defense. No buttons, levers or BS... just a really good gun that shoots every time and hold a lot of bullets. I do not recommend an auto for a home defense gun. I have lots of them but I still use a wheel gun for home defense (my wife uses an M1 Carbine with 30 rounds of my handloads using frangible loads... she doesn't like the muzzle blast of the .357 and her place is behind the front lines unless I'm gone).
First, shotguns make less than ideal home defense weapons. They do have to be aimed at the ranges you'll see indoors, they explode walls if you miss (killing whoever is on the other side) and there are unavoidable tactical problems with using such a long gun inside a structure.
In my experience, the best weapon is one you feel comfortable using to murder an intruder when you're nearly asleep, completely naked, very scared and confused. Typically this means the best gun is something instinctive to use, not overly powerful, that can be point-aimed at 20ft distances, can support +P+ frangible ammo (MagSafe, Glaser Blue, Glaser Silver, BeeSafe) without damage to the weapon.
This being the case, the gun I would equip a new owner with as a defense and plinking gun would be a Ruger GP100 based .357mag (NO STAINLESS FOR HOME DEFENSE WEAPONS unless you live in a swamp or the tropics). You can use .38special ammo (cheap as hell) for fun, train with inexpensive full power 357 loads, and defend/hunt with the frangible loads I listed above.
It is imperitive that you be competently trained. A gun used for home defense is more likely to cause collateral damage than to smoke an intruder. It's a problem of tactical awareness meeting abject terror and accuracy suffers as a result. When you're properly trained you'll fight how you trained.
Lastly, I have seen it proved numerous times but it bears repeating here:
During a crisis you will NOT rise to the occasion but you WILL default to your level of training. I've experienced it personally, and seen it live enough times to say it's 100% true.
In auto pistols, glock is home defense. No buttons, levers or BS... just a really good gun that shoots every time and hold a lot of bullets. I do not recommend an auto for a home defense gun. I have lots of them but I still use a wheel gun for home defense (my wife uses an M1 Carbine with 30 rounds of my handloads using frangible loads... she doesn't like the muzzle blast of the .357 and her place is behind the front lines unless I'm gone).
but with that in mind...I am a 4th generation american blue blooded couch potato. I dont like moving unless i go to get food or poop. if i lose the tv remote i call 911. thats why i decided to have my house booby trapped with pressure mines and thin wire connected to grenade pins half pulled out. there is no way on gods green earth im goin got use my free american energy to pull a trigger or even load a gun let alone aim it. why bother when i can have a large explosive device do it for me. now only if i wasn't confined to this 3 square foot area filled the smells of poop, urine and Dr. pepper i'd by ok. im working on a solution to hover my fat *** around my house without blowing myself up. ill let you guys know how it goes from here on out.
#34
12-17-2006, 11:08 PM
If you're getting a shotgun to do trap and skeet and just shoot for fun, go with a 20. They're a lot more fun to shoot if you're out all day and no one gives a **** whether you have a 12 or 20 gauge. Now if you are hunting then you'll want a 12 but 20's are fun to shoot and a lot better when shooting trap and skeet.
Also i live in a very big house with lots of open space, so wielding a shotgun around in it wouldn't be difficult. Also my parents are much more comfortable with me having a shotgun in the house than they are with a handgun. (i know that doesn't make much sense since a shotgun has such destructive potential) And the price was 370 brand new but i know they will lower it or throw in some freebies if i'm actually buying and am not just looking. I'm still not sure what i want to get, i am going to the range next week to fire off some different size handguns and a couple different brands of shotgun and will narrow my choices down from there
Greg and R3dn3ck you have been alot of help, everyone else go away.
#36
12-18-2006, 12:06 PM
apparently you missed the part where i said don't tell me to get a 20 gauge, since i've already decided on a 12 (if i end up getting a shotgun).
Also i live in a very big house with lots of open space, so wielding a shotgun around in it wouldn't be difficult. Also my parents are much more comfortable with me having a shotgun in the house than they are with a handgun. (i know that doesn't make much sense since a shotgun has such destructive potential) And the price was 370 brand new but i know they will lower it or throw in some freebies if i'm actually buying and am not just looking. I'm still not sure what i want to get, i am going to the range next week to fire off some different size handguns and a couple different brands of shotgun and will narrow my choices down from there
Greg and R3dn3ck you have been alot of help, everyone else go away.
Also i live in a very big house with lots of open space, so wielding a shotgun around in it wouldn't be difficult. Also my parents are much more comfortable with me having a shotgun in the house than they are with a handgun. (i know that doesn't make much sense since a shotgun has such destructive potential) And the price was 370 brand new but i know they will lower it or throw in some freebies if i'm actually buying and am not just looking. I'm still not sure what i want to get, i am going to the range next week to fire off some different size handguns and a couple different brands of shotgun and will narrow my choices down from there
Greg and R3dn3ck you have been alot of help, everyone else go away.
#38
12-18-2006, 10:13 PM
I still preffer my .20 over my .12 for bird hunting...makes it a little funner... .20 will still put a pretty little mark on your shoulder..
I bash Glocks for the fact that I don't like the feeling of them...
And I bash 9mms hardcore... because they are overrated and every rapper and his retarded mom are like "9 can keel someone yo"....all i have to say is...no **** and a .22 can do the same thing.
Automatics aren't reliable for home defence imo, any automatic can mess up and jam..which is why I have my blackhawk with .357 loads under the bed, and the .45 auto in the safe..
I bash Glocks for the fact that I don't like the feeling of them...
And I bash 9mms hardcore... because they are overrated and every rapper and his retarded mom are like "9 can keel someone yo"....all i have to say is...no **** and a .22 can do the same thing.
Automatics aren't reliable for home defence imo, any automatic can mess up and jam..which is why I have my blackhawk with .357 loads under the bed, and the .45 auto in the safe..
#39
12-19-2006, 07:41 AM
I teach a "Refuse to be a Victim" class for women and the elderly/disabled. As part of that class I have the students do a call and response. We read through some selected news clippings of people like them using guns for defense and analyze the situation in their own cases blah blah blah. Every few minutes I'll randomly holler out "What kind of gun stops fights?" and they chant back "The gun is a tool and any one will do. I am the weapon so I stop the fight."
There is no best caliber. That's a universal fact. Pump up your favorite caliber as much as you want, use the hottest round you can find... won't matter. What wins a gun fight is timing. Whoever was the first to decide to kill the other guy and really commit to that action path will generally prevail. To assure victory you need the following in order of importance: Commitment, accuracy, tools, a just reason. Notice speed, weapon power, weapon type etc... aren't even mentioned. Simply have the weapon, be committed to the act and you will usually prevail. After that it's all training in cover and concealment, tactical and strategic maneuvers and volume of fire on target that picks the winner.
My point is, don't look to any caliber as better than another. That's how people get killed. When you assign some tactical value to the width of your bullet you assign power to it that it does not have. You have all the power. Put the bullet in the center of mass and continue doing so until the threat has been converted to non-combatant status.
Finally... fwiw, I'm a .45 auto user. 9mm is overrated by the ignorant and underrated by the public. SnTBakos and I totally agree on one thing... a .22 will keel da fooz just as well as a 9mm/.40/.45/.44/etc.. All you have to do is put the bullet in the center of mass, rinse and repeat.
There is no best caliber. That's a universal fact. Pump up your favorite caliber as much as you want, use the hottest round you can find... won't matter. What wins a gun fight is timing. Whoever was the first to decide to kill the other guy and really commit to that action path will generally prevail. To assure victory you need the following in order of importance: Commitment, accuracy, tools, a just reason. Notice speed, weapon power, weapon type etc... aren't even mentioned. Simply have the weapon, be committed to the act and you will usually prevail. After that it's all training in cover and concealment, tactical and strategic maneuvers and volume of fire on target that picks the winner.
My point is, don't look to any caliber as better than another. That's how people get killed. When you assign some tactical value to the width of your bullet you assign power to it that it does not have. You have all the power. Put the bullet in the center of mass and continue doing so until the threat has been converted to non-combatant status.
Finally... fwiw, I'm a .45 auto user. 9mm is overrated by the ignorant and underrated by the public. SnTBakos and I totally agree on one thing... a .22 will keel da fooz just as well as a 9mm/.40/.45/.44/etc.. All you have to do is put the bullet in the center of mass, rinse and repeat.
#41
12-21-2006, 12:52 PM
1. a well placed shot is far more importand then a large caliper. You can take down whitetails with a .22mag if the placement is correct. So as for saying x round is not good for stopping a man 5 feed away from you . . . come on.
But a gun with more ***** is allways fun
I would get something with a little bit longer barrel, most of these self-defence side arms are tiny, and at the range (25yards) they are just all over the place. bottom line, these guns are for shooting people, people at close range to boot.
Oh, and as for the glock being a pansy gun, perhaps he was refering to the recoil, as with any auto-loader the recoil is going to be far less then your average revolver because of the energy that is going into ejecting the cartrage and puting a new round into the chamber.
IMO shotguns should only be used to hunt deeer if your doing a push (aka have to shoot at a fast moving target) in that case 00 buckshot FTW. But when i hear about people hunting from a stand with a shotgun i just cringe . . .
let us all learn from dirty hairy . . .
all praise the .44 mag.
But a gun with more ***** is allways fun
I would get something with a little bit longer barrel, most of these self-defence side arms are tiny, and at the range (25yards) they are just all over the place. bottom line, these guns are for shooting people, people at close range to boot.
Oh, and as for the glock being a pansy gun, perhaps he was refering to the recoil, as with any auto-loader the recoil is going to be far less then your average revolver because of the energy that is going into ejecting the cartrage and puting a new round into the chamber.
IMO shotguns should only be used to hunt deeer if your doing a push (aka have to shoot at a fast moving target) in that case 00 buckshot FTW. But when i hear about people hunting from a stand with a shotgun i just cringe . . .
let us all learn from dirty hairy . . .
all praise the .44 mag.
#42
12-22-2006, 07:41 PM
Alright so bring on all the flamers now who hate both 9mm and Glocks, because I ended ub buying a glock G34 9mm today. I considered something bigger but this one was an awesome deal and 9mm ammo is really cheap so i can shoot off a few hundred rounds at a time. I also just really liked the way it looked and felt in my hand. Its considered a "competition" size it has a 5 inch barrel and an adjustable sight. It's supposed to go for $625 but I got it for $450.
#43
12-22-2006, 08:04 PM
Alright so bring on all the flamers now who hate both 9mm and Glocks, because I ended ub buying a glock G34 9mm today. I considered something bigger but this one was an awesome deal and 9mm ammo is really cheap so i can shoot off a few hundred rounds at a time. I also just really liked the way it looked and felt in my hand. Its considered a "competition" size it has a 5 inch barrel and an adjustable sight. It's supposed to go for $625 but I got it for $450.
wtf was the point of this thread...
#44
12-22-2006, 08:39 PM
quit snivelin'.
I really like mine. And the 35. I have a nice collection stuffed in a safe in Nevada. 450 is a helluva good deal on that gun. Is it used? If it is you should probably replace the mainspring and check the bore for wear. If the previous owner used his like most do then it was something like IPSC and it's seen a good bit of use. No worries... I have 2 glocks with 300K+ rounds through them and they're still tight as the day I bought em (new barrels though... they do wear out.)
I think the thread started as a suggestion box about personal defense guns which is kinda funny given that none of us can judge this dudes particular needs. Our suggestions are best guesses if anything. Since any gun is better than none when you need one, I don't bet it much matters which one he gets as long as he does so and learns how to use it for close quarters combat.
I really like mine. And the 35. I have a nice collection stuffed in a safe in Nevada. 450 is a helluva good deal on that gun. Is it used? If it is you should probably replace the mainspring and check the bore for wear. If the previous owner used his like most do then it was something like IPSC and it's seen a good bit of use. No worries... I have 2 glocks with 300K+ rounds through them and they're still tight as the day I bought em (new barrels though... they do wear out.)
I think the thread started as a suggestion box about personal defense guns which is kinda funny given that none of us can judge this dudes particular needs. Our suggestions are best guesses if anything. Since any gun is better than none when you need one, I don't bet it much matters which one he gets as long as he does so and learns how to use it for close quarters combat.
#45
12-23-2006, 03:54 AM
the point was to get suggestions on which firearm to purchase, and you guys believe it or not helped me make my decision. and i just figured i'd let everyone know what i ended up going with.
R3dn3ck, it is used, but you can hardly tell as it has hardly any wear. I was planning on checking the springs the first time i take it apart to clean it. It really was a great price, and i probably wouldn't have been able to get that price if i didn't know the dealer personally. now i just have to wait untill the stupid 10 day waiting period is over so i can pick it up and then start shooting. My dad even wants to go get a handgun now too so he can go to the range with me.
R3dn3ck, it is used, but you can hardly tell as it has hardly any wear. I was planning on checking the springs the first time i take it apart to clean it. It really was a great price, and i probably wouldn't have been able to get that price if i didn't know the dealer personally. now i just have to wait untill the stupid 10 day waiting period is over so i can pick it up and then start shooting. My dad even wants to go get a handgun now too so he can go to the range with me.
#47
12-23-2006, 09:30 AM
don't expect too much from the 9mm as far as accuracy is concerned. The Glock 34 were smokin accurate for 9mm but they were never anything close to a true "match" gun. It's accurate enough to spank just about any other combat worty autofeeder though and the recoil is so low you'll probably never develop a flinch because of it.
I favor my 21c above all my others. It's the loudest 45 I own but it's also the single most reliable. When I carry, that's the one I reach for first. Otherwise I like a Kel-Tec P11 or my Grendel P12.
I favor my 21c above all my others. It's the loudest 45 I own but it's also the single most reliable. When I carry, that's the one I reach for first. Otherwise I like a Kel-Tec P11 or my Grendel P12.
#49
12-24-2006, 08:40 AM
2 in the pump + 2 in the ECU. Shuts that motor down for good.
I was just going through some old paperwork and I found my Utah CCW permit. I qualified with a Desert Eagle .44mag, a .475 Linebaugh (converted Ruger Super Blackhawk) and a 3" barrel S&W 629 (.44mag).
Gawd that s&w was loud. 3" barrel, 44mag and 4x magnaported. Utah had some quirky rule that if you were going to use a wheel gun you had to qualify with one, same with autos. Given that I'm just as likely as not to be carrying BOTH, I figured might as well qualify with 1 of each type. Picking .44mag was just luck... some of my buddies brought theirs just for laughs. I brought the .475 in that day to get a new set of grips... seemed natural to spend 30 bucks on ammo just to qualify ($3/rd x 2 cylinders full x 5 shot cylinder).
All 15 of us in the class that day qualified with .44mag or higher power pistols. The instructor didn't think we were serious when we said he'd be teaching "enthusiasts" and not beginners and was kinda condescending so we all showed him what he was dealing with. Every one of us was either an instructor or a multi-dicipline competitive champion. He was a little surprised to see 1" groups from rapid fire sessions with a Desert Eagle.
I loaned him my .475 Linebaugh and he ended up cracking his radius (forearm bone) on the 3rd shot. You gotta be ready to shoot that gun. I used a 44 every day for an hour for a whole year just to get used to recoil before I shot the 475.
I was just going through some old paperwork and I found my Utah CCW permit. I qualified with a Desert Eagle .44mag, a .475 Linebaugh (converted Ruger Super Blackhawk) and a 3" barrel S&W 629 (.44mag).
Gawd that s&w was loud. 3" barrel, 44mag and 4x magnaported. Utah had some quirky rule that if you were going to use a wheel gun you had to qualify with one, same with autos. Given that I'm just as likely as not to be carrying BOTH, I figured might as well qualify with 1 of each type. Picking .44mag was just luck... some of my buddies brought theirs just for laughs. I brought the .475 in that day to get a new set of grips... seemed natural to spend 30 bucks on ammo just to qualify ($3/rd x 2 cylinders full x 5 shot cylinder).
All 15 of us in the class that day qualified with .44mag or higher power pistols. The instructor didn't think we were serious when we said he'd be teaching "enthusiasts" and not beginners and was kinda condescending so we all showed him what he was dealing with. Every one of us was either an instructor or a multi-dicipline competitive champion. He was a little surprised to see 1" groups from rapid fire sessions with a Desert Eagle.
I loaned him my .475 Linebaugh and he ended up cracking his radius (forearm bone) on the 3rd shot. You gotta be ready to shoot that gun. I used a 44 every day for an hour for a whole year just to get used to recoil before I shot the 475.
#50
08-27-2007, 04:46 PM
So instead of starting a new thread, i thought i'd zombify this one. I bought a new gun for the range today, a Walther p22 with the 3.4" barrel. For those of you who don't shoot, ammo prices have gone way up recently. This means it's kinda expensive now for me to shoot 100 rounds or more in one session, even though 9mm ammo is still one of the cheapest centerfire pistol rounds. Thats why I decided to get a .22 for the range. (I still have my glock stashed under the bed)
#51
08-27-2007, 05:49 PM
So instead of starting a new thread, i thought i'd zombify this one. I bought a new gun for the range today, a Walther p22 with the 3.4" barrel. For those of you who don't shoot, ammo prices have gone way up recently. This means it's kinda expensive now for me to shoot 100 rounds or more in one session, even though 9mm ammo is still one of the cheapest centerfire pistol rounds. Thats why I decided to get a .22 for the range. (I still have my glock stashed under the bed)
Just got to shoot conservatively now.
Last edited by PColav6; 08-27-2007 at 07:29 PM. Reason: clarified for the lefty haha
#52
08-27-2007, 07:25 PM
Starting September 1st ammo prices will increase from 15-30%. So buy what you need now, there shouldn't be a much significant increase in .22 ammo, but for 9mm, .30-06, .22, 7.62, etc everyone is cringing. Prices of reloading equipment will be increasing too.
Just got to shoot conservatively now.
Just got to shoot conservatively now.
#56
08-27-2007, 08:46 PM
In your dreams dumbass, keep on looking for your special guy so maybe one day your lifelong dream of getting fucked up the *** will finally come true, ***. hahahahaha ***.
**** off
Loser
haha
