Clutch & Rear End Shifting Problem
#1
03-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
Clutch & Rear End Shifting Problem
1995 Ford Mustang GT 5.0
Clutch: I have a problem that's being caused by clutch cable being stretched.
Question: Is there a way to adjust the stock cable? or do I need to replace it?
Rear End Shifting: Awhile ago I posted a thread about "Trailing Arms" which I found out they're called "Upper Control Arms". I got them replaced with a used stock Cobra pair. The problem is still there and happening after I replaced them. I then figured that it was my shocks because they're blown. I just replaced the Rear Shocks, Rear Dampers, Front Shocks, Steering Rack Bushings and then an alignment. The problem is a little better, but it's still there of course.
Question: What else could it be?
What I mean by shifting is like, I try to get the rear end to move back and fourth and it will throw it off balance. I only noticed this when I got new tires and got bigger tires. I went from 245/45/17 to 275/40/17 in the rear.
Clutch: I have a problem that's being caused by clutch cable being stretched.
Question: Is there a way to adjust the stock cable? or do I need to replace it?
Rear End Shifting: Awhile ago I posted a thread about "Trailing Arms" which I found out they're called "Upper Control Arms". I got them replaced with a used stock Cobra pair. The problem is still there and happening after I replaced them. I then figured that it was my shocks because they're blown. I just replaced the Rear Shocks, Rear Dampers, Front Shocks, Steering Rack Bushings and then an alignment. The problem is a little better, but it's still there of course.
Question: What else could it be?
What I mean by shifting is like, I try to get the rear end to move back and fourth and it will throw it off balance. I only noticed this when I got new tires and got bigger tires. I went from 245/45/17 to 275/40/17 in the rear.
#2
03-02-2011, 07:31 AM
There is a way to adjust the clutch cable. In my Haynes manual it is in section 8-3. It looks like you have to remove one end from the quadrant, then remove it from the clutch fork, pull it up farther on the quadrant, and reattach it. The quadrant is self adjusting so I don't know why it can't be done just at that end though. You pull up on the cluch pedal to adjust, unless you have an aftermarket quadrant and firewall adjuster and you do it at that end. If the cable is stretched out father than you can adjust that way, then you need a new cable, the factory cable is the best on the market.
I'm still not sure what you mean my the rear end "shifting" or when you say "move back and forth it will throw it off balance." I would remove all the control arms and inspect all the bushings, and shells since that was and issue last time. Most importantly, which way is it shifting. Side-to-side, back-to-front? Can you move it by hand when the rear is jacked up, or only when you drive? It has to be in the control arms, since that is the way the rear end it attached to the car. The shocks don't have anything to do with it, the springs might. I don't think the tires have anything to do with it, unless they are contacting something other than the ground.
I'm still not sure what you mean my the rear end "shifting" or when you say "move back and forth it will throw it off balance." I would remove all the control arms and inspect all the bushings, and shells since that was and issue last time. Most importantly, which way is it shifting. Side-to-side, back-to-front? Can you move it by hand when the rear is jacked up, or only when you drive? It has to be in the control arms, since that is the way the rear end it attached to the car. The shocks don't have anything to do with it, the springs might. I don't think the tires have anything to do with it, unless they are contacting something other than the ground.
#3
03-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Yeah, thats a little hard to understand. Sounds like the torque boxes may be damaged. If you pull your parking brake and then try to rock the car back and fourth by hand, does the body move and the rear end stay stationary? If so I would look into where the control arms connect into the body (torque boxes).
Save youself a lot of hassle and put a firewall adjuster and Quadant kit on the car. Its worth the money and easy to install, makes adjusting your clutch a breeze.
Save youself a lot of hassle and put a firewall adjuster and Quadant kit on the car. Its worth the money and easy to install, makes adjusting your clutch a breeze.
Last edited by TUFF 4.6; 03-02-2011 at 09:41 AM.
#4
03-07-2011, 11:00 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
There is a way to adjust the clutch cable. In my Haynes manual it is in section 8-3. It looks like you have to remove one end from the quadrant, then remove it from the clutch fork, pull it up farther on the quadrant, and reattach it. The quadrant is self adjusting so I don't know why it can't be done just at that end though. You pull up on the cluch pedal to adjust, unless you have an aftermarket quadrant and firewall adjuster and you do it at that end. If the cable is stretched out father than you can adjust that way, then you need a new cable, the factory cable is the best on the market.
I'm still not sure what you mean my the rear end "shifting" or when you say "move back and forth it will throw it off balance." I would remove all the control arms and inspect all the bushings, and shells since that was and issue last time. Most importantly, which way is it shifting. Side-to-side, back-to-front? Can you move it by hand when the rear is jacked up, or only when you drive? It has to be in the control arms, since that is the way the rear end it attached to the car. The shocks don't have anything to do with it, the springs might. I don't think the tires have anything to do with it, unless they are contacting something other than the ground.
I'm still not sure what you mean my the rear end "shifting" or when you say "move back and forth it will throw it off balance." I would remove all the control arms and inspect all the bushings, and shells since that was and issue last time. Most importantly, which way is it shifting. Side-to-side, back-to-front? Can you move it by hand when the rear is jacked up, or only when you drive? It has to be in the control arms, since that is the way the rear end it attached to the car. The shocks don't have anything to do with it, the springs might. I don't think the tires have anything to do with it, unless they are contacting something other than the ground.
The rear body moves left to right, but the axels and tires don't. I've only noticed this problem after I upgraded to bigger tires for the rear, it never did it with my old tires. I haven't done it while it was jacked up off the ground. I've done it while it's on the ground and not really sure how much it moves. I'm going to check the Lower Control arms, to make sure their tight.
Yeah, thats a little hard to understand. Sounds like the torque boxes may be damaged. If you pull your parking brake and then try to rock the car back and fourth by hand, does the body move and the rear end stay stationary? If so I would look into where the control arms connect into the body (torque boxes).
Save youself a lot of hassle and put a firewall adjuster and Quadant kit on the car. Its worth the money and easy to install, makes adjusting your clutch a breeze.
Save youself a lot of hassle and put a firewall adjuster and Quadant kit on the car. Its worth the money and easy to install, makes adjusting your clutch a breeze.
For some odd reason I don't want a Firewall Adjuster, but I do want a Quadrant after finding out what it's purpose is.
Both these have good reviews:
http://www.americanmuscle.com/maximu...tch-cable.html
http://www.americanmuscle.com/maximu...-quadrant.html
#5
03-10-2011, 12:10 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
This took longer than I expected and I didn't realize I took so many pictures.
I am 101% positive it's my lower control arms, they're moving back and fourth inside where they mount off. If you look on the side, you can see bare metal from it rubbing on it and what not. I still may be wrong, because I'm still learning, but from the looks of it and the theory I have behind it, it seems to be the problem.
This is the Passenger Rear Lower Control Arm:
Is this the Torque Box?
I am 101% positive it's my lower control arms, they're moving back and fourth inside where they mount off. If you look on the side, you can see bare metal from it rubbing on it and what not. I still may be wrong, because I'm still learning, but from the looks of it and the theory I have behind it, it seems to be the problem.
This is the Passenger Rear Lower Control Arm:
Is this the Torque Box?
#8
03-10-2011, 02:38 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
Yeah I was planning on doing that and buying Rear Polyurethane Spring Isolators from AM.
I don't know where to get bushings and what I should get?
Why is there a gap there?
I tried to tighten them, but I couldn't because of some rod that goes through them.
I'm going to inspect them soon to make sure the housing area isn't messed up. Because the Upper Control Arms had to be completely replaced. Since the housing where the bushings sit in, were completely bent and mis shaped.
Edit:
In the last picture of both post, is that the Torque Boxes?
I don't know where to get bushings and what I should get?
Why is there a gap there?
I tried to tighten them, but I couldn't because of some rod that goes through them.
I'm going to inspect them soon to make sure the housing area isn't messed up. Because the Upper Control Arms had to be completely replaced. Since the housing where the bushings sit in, were completely bent and mis shaped.
Edit:
In the last picture of both post, is that the Torque Boxes?
Last edited by BikerSk8rKid; 03-10-2011 at 02:44 PM.
#9
03-10-2011, 04:37 PM
I'm unclear on what exactly counts as the Tq. boxes also, but I think that's it. Look for something like Prothane poly bushings.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...t-Oval-Bushing
That metal sleeve goes through the bushing to prevent the control arm or mounting point to crush under the pressure of tightening the bolt, so you don't eat through the bushing also.
There shouldn't be that much of a gap there. It's due to either your bushings or the area around has been bent out. But with all that space to move around, you can imagine how that axle is dancing all over the place. My MM LCAs with the chassis end poly bushing is hard to get up into its mounting position. The fit it tight. Rubber bushings allow some movement of the rear, but damn, air gap bushings provide no resistance.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...t-Oval-Bushing
That metal sleeve goes through the bushing to prevent the control arm or mounting point to crush under the pressure of tightening the bolt, so you don't eat through the bushing also.
There shouldn't be that much of a gap there. It's due to either your bushings or the area around has been bent out. But with all that space to move around, you can imagine how that axle is dancing all over the place. My MM LCAs with the chassis end poly bushing is hard to get up into its mounting position. The fit it tight. Rubber bushings allow some movement of the rear, but damn, air gap bushings provide no resistance.
#10
03-10-2011, 05:02 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
I'm unclear on what exactly counts as the Tq. boxes also, but I think that's it. Look for something like Prothane poly bushings.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...t-Oval-Bushing
That metal sleeve goes through the bushing to prevent the control arm or mounting point to crush under the pressure of tightening the bolt, so you don't eat through the bushing also.
There shouldn't be that much of a gap there. It's due to either your bushings or the area around has been bent out. But with all that space to move around, you can imagine how that axle is dancing all over the place. My MM LCAs with the chassis end poly bushing is hard to get up into its mounting position. The fit it tight. Rubber bushings allow some movement of the rear, but damn, air gap bushings provide no resistance.
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...t-Oval-Bushing
That metal sleeve goes through the bushing to prevent the control arm or mounting point to crush under the pressure of tightening the bolt, so you don't eat through the bushing also.
There shouldn't be that much of a gap there. It's due to either your bushings or the area around has been bent out. But with all that space to move around, you can imagine how that axle is dancing all over the place. My MM LCAs with the chassis end poly bushing is hard to get up into its mounting position. The fit it tight. Rubber bushings allow some movement of the rear, but damn, air gap bushings provide no resistance.
I would think there shouldn't be any play, but then again it's stock. I don't like the way my car felt when the rear would swing, let alone when I was on the high way. I'm afraid to take it through the twisties, curves and what not at fast speeds because of this. haha
Finally, getting all this **** figured out and taken care of. I guess since it's a complete upper and lower kit, I could replace the Upper Control Arms with better bushings. :O
Will those come with instructions?
#11
03-11-2011, 08:09 AM
As far as the clutch cable, I'm assuming your clutch isn't disengaging all the way. Have someone push the clutch in and remove the cover for the clutch fork. If the fork is as far forward as it can go, the problem is in the pressure plate or throwout bearing and it's time for a new clutch. If it's not all the way to the edge of the hole, you can pull the clip that holds the cable to the bell housing and pull the cable out of the bell housing just enough to lock vise-grips around it and space it off a bit and see if it gets better. Then you'll know for sure if it's the cable. The stock unit adjusts itself and you don't take off anything to do it. Just push it down and it should spring itself up as needed when you release it. Pulling up on the pedal helps it get a little more adjustment.
The bushing kit is the cheapest way to go, but not the easiest. You'll need an air hammer to get the old bushings out of the arms and the rear end housing. Plus you'll still have those somewhat weak, nonadjustable stock arms. A good set of aftermarket control arms have the poly bushings already in them. MAC used to sell a good set for a very reasonable price, but I no longer see them on their website. Of course, if you think just the bushings are expensive, you probably don't want a set of new arms.
You picked the right thing on the torque boxes. It's the part where the arm bolts into the frame rail. But not just the bottom there. Those seams can rip loose from their spot welds anywhere along where it touches the body and have to be rewelded. From what I can see, yours look fine. Most issues with these are caused by hard launches at the strip and they will cause the rear end to shift from front to back when you get on and off the gas. You'll know when they rip loose. They'll pop and scrape and you'll feel the rear end moving around when you accelerate.
The bushing kit is the cheapest way to go, but not the easiest. You'll need an air hammer to get the old bushings out of the arms and the rear end housing. Plus you'll still have those somewhat weak, nonadjustable stock arms. A good set of aftermarket control arms have the poly bushings already in them. MAC used to sell a good set for a very reasonable price, but I no longer see them on their website. Of course, if you think just the bushings are expensive, you probably don't want a set of new arms.
You picked the right thing on the torque boxes. It's the part where the arm bolts into the frame rail. But not just the bottom there. Those seams can rip loose from their spot welds anywhere along where it touches the body and have to be rewelded. From what I can see, yours look fine. Most issues with these are caused by hard launches at the strip and they will cause the rear end to shift from front to back when you get on and off the gas. You'll know when they rip loose. They'll pop and scrape and you'll feel the rear end moving around when you accelerate.
#12
03-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
As far as the clutch cable, I'm assuming your clutch isn't disengaging all the way. Have someone push the clutch in and remove the cover for the clutch fork. If the fork is as far forward as it can go, the problem is in the pressure plate or throwout bearing and it's time for a new clutch. If it's not all the way to the edge of the hole, you can pull the clip that holds the cable to the bell housing and pull the cable out of the bell housing just enough to lock vise-grips around it and space it off a bit and see if it gets better. Then you'll know for sure if it's the cable. The stock unit adjusts itself and you don't take off anything to do it. Just push it down and it should spring itself up as needed when you release it. Pulling up on the pedal helps it get a little more adjustment.
The bushing kit is the cheapest way to go, but not the easiest. You'll need an air hammer to get the old bushings out of the arms and the rear end housing. Plus you'll still have those somewhat weak, nonadjustable stock arms. A good set of aftermarket control arms have the poly bushings already in them. MAC used to sell a good set for a very reasonable price, but I no longer see them on their website. Of course, if you think just the bushings are expensive, you probably don't want a set of new arms.
You picked the right thing on the torque boxes. It's the part where the arm bolts into the frame rail. But not just the bottom there. Those seams can rip loose from their spot welds anywhere along where it touches the body and have to be rewelded. From what I can see, yours look fine. Most issues with these are caused by hard launches at the strip and they will cause the rear end to shift from front to back when you get on and off the gas. You'll know when they rip loose. They'll pop and scrape and you'll feel the rear end moving around when you accelerate.
The bushing kit is the cheapest way to go, but not the easiest. You'll need an air hammer to get the old bushings out of the arms and the rear end housing. Plus you'll still have those somewhat weak, nonadjustable stock arms. A good set of aftermarket control arms have the poly bushings already in them. MAC used to sell a good set for a very reasonable price, but I no longer see them on their website. Of course, if you think just the bushings are expensive, you probably don't want a set of new arms.
You picked the right thing on the torque boxes. It's the part where the arm bolts into the frame rail. But not just the bottom there. Those seams can rip loose from their spot welds anywhere along where it touches the body and have to be rewelded. From what I can see, yours look fine. Most issues with these are caused by hard launches at the strip and they will cause the rear end to shift from front to back when you get on and off the gas. You'll know when they rip loose. They'll pop and scrape and you'll feel the rear end moving around when you accelerate.
I want to upgrade, but I'm still unsure what I'd like to do with the car. It has a lot of miles and it's a daily driver, not so much a track car or anything. So I'll more than likely just do the bushings. My mechanics shop next store will pretty much do it for me, if I remove them.
I rarely launching, I have no idea why, but I refuse to do it or if I do it's little. Can I inforce the TQ Boxes from welding the sides of that little box area thing?
#14
03-11-2011, 05:24 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,726
My car is a daily driver, but I still take it through the twisties, turns, curves, corners and whatever. I still race and have fun, but nothing to serious or at least not yet. I'm rough on my car.
What would it do if I get it weld up?
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