Dyno for the 5.4 - Page 2

*madmatt* · 06-20-2006, 02:38 PM

DAMN those are great numbers. Could you post a list of the specs? Compression? Ported heads? Cams? Just curious. Another awesome SC car.

Saleen S330 · 06-20-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmatt

DAMN those are great numbers. Could you post a list of the specs? Compression? Ported heads? Cams? Just curious. Another awesome SC car.

Here is a link to my cardomain site, if you can't get to it let me know and i can list everything for you.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2292671

*madmatt* · 06-21-2006, 07:34 AM

Holy hell thats stock compression stock cams. THAT IS NUTS!!! Very sweet man. VERY sweet.

Saleen S330 · 06-21-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmatt

Holy hell thats stock compression stock cams. THAT IS NUTS!!! Very sweet man. VERY sweet.

Oh yeah! and cams are in the near future. What's sweet, is when i put it in 3rd and go and it feels torquy same as 4th gear.

r3dn3ck · 06-21-2006, 10:30 AM

how much power can you find was a question posed a moment ago. There's only limits based on how wild you wanna get and how attached you are to 2V heads. 4V heads lift the limits into orbit.

On a 2V if you can move the tq peak out far enough with cams and intake and major head porting (like to 4800rpm) you could see in excess of 350rwhp and as much as 425rwtq or more. More reasonable numbers are in the 300-315hp and 360-400tq and that requires really very little to acheive. As soon as Saleen drops some 262's in his ride he'll eclipse 300rwhp and probably shoot up to 380tq or better.

With a supercharger/turbo on ported 2V heads you'll be in realistic territory up to 500-550rwhp, then you start needing more head flow or the boost pressure is just too high for streetability. Torque numbers up there are well over 600 and major drivetrain upgrades should be contemplated seriously.

Add a little nitrous and they become unbelievably brutal motors. I found a guy on the corral that's running a setup much like mine will be so I PM'd him for some experience notes on what kind of NA power he was seeing at 10.5:1 compression with cams. We'll see.

Saleen S330 · 06-21-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

how much power can you find was a question posed a moment ago. There's only limits based on how wild you wanna get and how attached you are to 2V heads. 4V heads lift the limits into orbit.

On a 2V if you can move the tq peak out far enough with cams and intake and major head porting (like to 4800rpm) you could see in excess of 350rwhp and as much as 425rwtq or more. More reasonable numbers are in the 300-315hp and 360-400tq and that requires really very little to acheive. As soon as Saleen drops some 262's in his ride he'll eclipse 300rwhp and probably shoot up to 380tq or better.

With a supercharger/turbo on ported 2V heads you'll be in realistic territory up to 500-550rwhp, then you start needing more head flow or the boost pressure is just too high for streetability. Torque numbers up there are well over 600 and major drivetrain upgrades should be contemplated seriously.

Add a little nitrous and they become unbelievably brutal motors. I found a guy on the corral that's running a setup much like mine will be so I PM'd him for some experience notes on what kind of NA power he was seeing at 10.5:1 compression with cams. We'll see.

If you have the money, there are no limits. but true, the 2V is the show stopper on the N/A cars, till you go 4V. but build it up, ported 2V heads and a SC or Tubo and you will have one sick a$$, pissed off pony on the streets looking for sh*t to race.....

jjtgiants · 06-21-2006, 01:44 PM

Good info guys! Thanks.

purplefrenzy · 06-27-2006, 10:14 PM

What do you guys think about that port-it-yourself head write up - im thinking about doing it, and that with a blower should be fairly nasty - like you all are saying.

Karls04GT · 06-27-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrenzy

What do you guys think about that port-it-yourself head write up - im thinking about doing it, and that with a blower should be fairly nasty - like you all are saying.

1. If you're going to port your own heads, go the wrecking yard first and get a set to practice on, screwing up your own heads will be expensive.

2. :bash: You guys are missing the OBVIOUS point, the reason that a 5.4 makes so much more torque than a 4.6 is the EXACT SAME reason that my 351W makes more torque than a 302: same heads, same bore, LONGER STROKE! Torque is made in the crank stroke, ladies and gentlemen, it's that simple. Careful research and the right parts will do it everytime.
Impressive numbers on the 5.4 dude! If I weren't so disillusioned by my first experience of stuffing a motor into a Mustang that it wasn't meant to have, I'd be hunting for a block myself. Try a longer rod next time for a better rod to stroke ratio, you'll see some sic numbers in RPM and torque then.

r3dn3ck · 06-28-2006, 07:01 AM

the 5.4L already uses the longest rod I've ever come across in a production motor at 6.658". it's longer than any chebbie or ford big block rod.

The 2V heads are also largely responsible for the massive bias toward tq on the 5.4. With 4V heads the 5.4 tq output is less impressive in ratio to the hp production. It's actually a lot more similar to the 4.6 with somewhere in the 300hp/345tq which is basically ratio equal to the 240hp/280tq that you commonly find in 4.6 2v. the 2v heads limiting of hp production assures that the math of the matter will bias to the other side and boost tq to insane levels as tq and hp are numerically related to rpm. To learn more about predicting hp and tq based on each other, google it.

Karls04GT · 06-28-2006, 10:30 AM

Maybe I missed something, but, the last time I read about the internals of a 4.6L and a 5.4L (this was before the V10 even came out), the only major differences were the tall deck block (for the longer crank arm), and the wider intake (a result of a taller block). The pistons, bearings, and I THOUGHT rods were interchangeable. Appearently I over looked the part about rod length. For that, I my have stepped on my ----.
As far as the statement about 4V heads not performing as well on the 5.4L, I haven't read anything for or against that statement, but that badass 5.4L in the Ford GT speaks for itself.
But the point still stands, long stroke better torque, short stroke, higher rpm range.

r3dn3ck · 06-28-2006, 11:09 AM

I'm not saying the 4v heads don't perform as well.. actually they're much more balanced on the 5.4 than the 4.6. What I'm saying is that hp is a function of tq and rpm and vice versa. The general statement of longer stroke=bigger tq is valid and if it seemed like I was contradicting you that was not my intent. That statement is totally valid as any stroker motor will show. My point was that the 2v head on modulars is limited enough in flow that it biases the power production wildly to the tq side on the 5.4L. If the intake side of the heads and the manifold itself were higher flowing the hp and tq would tend to even out a little more but tq would still be the big player until blower/turbo comes in or until cams got a bit wilder than stock.

Cliffs notes: Karls04GT and I seem to agree.

I think the single biggest issue with the 5.4 is the cams. They just plain lack duration sufficient to fill those loooooong chambers well. Add duration and things get right interesting on the quick.

The 6.8L V10 is a 5.4L with 2 extra holes. It uses the same pistons and rods as the 5.4, but only the pistons are the same as the 4.6. It's also an oddfire motor (IIRC it fires at 50 and 90 degrees), while 5.4L's fire at 90 degree intervals.

Karls04GT · 06-28-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3dn3ck

I think the single biggest issue with the 5.4 is the cams. They just plain lack duration sufficient to fill those loooooong chambers well. Add duration and things get right interesting on the quick.

The 6.8L V10 is a 5.4L with 2 extra holes. It uses the same pistons and rods as the 5.4, but only the pistons are the same as the 4.6.

1. GOOD POINT!! The same long duration cams in a 4.6 will not be as lumpy or high revving in a 5.4L.

2. Yet another point brought to light, perhaps my reading was of the 5.4 to the 6.8 motors when the 6.8 was due to come out. I still thought 5.0's ruled the world back then.

r3dn3ck · 06-28-2006, 11:46 AM

I still think the windors were the best motor ford ever created. The modulars are stronger but they were a comprimise between manufacturability and utility. They (modulars) are superior in several aspects but they still lack the ability to get a really good displacement for the physical size of the engine and they're tempermental which makes them less than ideal for really rugged use cases. I'd have a modular over a windsor any day but that's based on my desired use cases and a propensity to like more modern things than traditional things.

Saleen S330 · 08-23-2006, 10:36 AM

Shorty headers will be on this weekend and next week should get another dyno run to see what i'm at. If i can find a dam scanner, mine still doesn't work, i can slap it up to show everyone. more to follow.....

StormsGT · 09-24-2006, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saleen S330

Pro dyno ran the dyno tune on it tonight and the results are

289.79 HP
366.55 TQ

To the wheels and no corrections made

I'll have to find a scanner so i can post it on here. it had 350TQ and more from 3K rpms and up till 5K rpms it still had 300TQ. The HP peaked the 289.79 at 4400 rpms but still had about 285HP to 5K rpms and at 5500 rpms I had 275 HP. I'm really happy with the results, especially being N/A and having TQ like a supercharged GT. I can't wait to see how it does with some cams and a better intake.

And the TQ curve is soooo sweet!! now i see why i was spinning them in 3rd at the track on street tires.

Love that torque

jjtgiants · 10-04-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormsGT

Love that torque

I know, isn't that sweet! I'd LOVE to have that much torque.

myillwillinc · 10-05-2006, 07:37 AM

i'm trying for 400rwhp( or as close as possible in street trim) as NA. then i'll worry about forced induction...

assasinator · 07-30-2007, 05:07 PM

i dyno'd 250rwhp @ 4250 / 340 rwtq @ 3650 with only an "X" pipe, 160 t-stat, and cmc deletes. no tune, no nothing else.

325 rwtq at 3000 no converter lock-up.

cams are 9 dgrees advanced stock, so HP suffers,. stock intake has 18" long runners, so hp suffers also.

my current mods are yet to be dyno'd.

r3dn3ck · 07-31-2007, 08:21 AM

needs fatter cams... you can really make impressive gains with more duration. You never have to worry about PTV either so you can get bigger lift too. It's worth it in spades on the 3v. I'm betting you see a 15hp or better gain from cutting the runners down to 11". Show some intake pics or I'll e-choke you. hehe. How exactly did you get 7" cut out .... hmmmmm.

Hurry up... I gotta see this setup.

myillwillinc · 07-31-2007, 02:36 PM

post up some pics of it...

06-20-2006, 02:38 PM	#31 (permalink)
madmatt Traitor...lol Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 7,929	DAMN those are great numbers. Could you post a list of the specs? Compression? Ported heads? Cams? Just curious. Another awesome SC car. __________________ RPMPlanets

06-21-2006, 07:34 AM	#33 (permalink)
madmatt Traitor...lol Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 7,929	Holy hell thats stock compression stock cams. THAT IS NUTS!!! Very sweet man. VERY sweet. __________________ RPMPlanets

06-28-2006, 10:30 AM	#41 (permalink)
Karls04GT Dynamite inspector Join Date: May 2006 Location: Fallon, NV Posts: 81	Maybe I missed something, but, the last time I read about the internals of a 4.6L and a 5.4L (this was before the V10 even came out), the only major differences were the tall deck block (for the longer crank arm), and the wider intake (a result of a taller block). The pistons, bearings, and I THOUGHT rods were interchangeable. Appearently I over looked the part about rod length. For that, I my have stepped on my ----. As far as the statement about 4V heads not performing as well on the 5.4L, I haven't read anything for or against that statement, but that badass 5.4L in the Ford GT speaks for itself. But the point still stands, long stroke better torque, short stroke, higher rpm range. __________________ 03 F250 Power Stroke 4X4 You can't choke the guy who ripped you off online!!

10-05-2006, 07:37 AM	#48 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 654	i'm trying for 400rwhp( or as close as possible in street trim) as NA. then i'll worry about forced induction... __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

07-30-2007, 05:07 PM	#49 (permalink)
assasinator Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108	i dyno'd 250rwhp @ 4250 / 340 rwtq @ 3650 with only an "X" pipe, 160 t-stat, and cmc deletes. no tune, no nothing else. 325 rwtq at 3000 no converter lock-up. cams are 9 dgrees advanced stock, so HP suffers,. stock intake has 18" long runners, so hp suffers also. my current mods are yet to be dyno'd. __________________ 1996 GT/ 2005 5.4 3v ____________________ CMC plates delete altered stock intake twin 57mm throttle body march pullies 160* t-stat custom 80mm C&L maf K&N best:1/8th 8.58 @ 81.49 = 277 rwhp/340 rwtq.

06-21-2006, 10:30 AM	#35 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,015	how much power can you find was a question posed a moment ago. There's only limits based on how wild you wanna get and how attached you are to 2V heads. 4V heads lift the limits into orbit. On a 2V if you can move the tq peak out far enough with cams and intake and major head porting (like to 4800rpm) you could see in excess of 350rwhp and as much as 425rwtq or more. More reasonable numbers are in the 300-315hp and 360-400tq and that requires really very little to acheive. As soon as Saleen drops some 262's in his ride he'll eclipse 300rwhp and probably shoot up to 380tq or better. With a supercharger/turbo on ported 2V heads you'll be in realistic territory up to 500-550rwhp, then you start needing more head flow or the boost pressure is just too high for streetability. Torque numbers up there are well over 600 and major drivetrain upgrades should be contemplated seriously. Add a little nitrous and they become unbelievably brutal motors. I found a guy on the corral that's running a setup much like mine will be so I PM'd him for some experience notes on what kind of NA power he was seeing at 10.5:1 compression with cams. We'll see.

06-21-2006, 01:44 PM	#37 (permalink)
jjtgiants jjtgiants Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dublin, CA Posts: 3,762	Good info guys! Thanks.

06-27-2006, 10:14 PM	#38 (permalink)
purplefrenzy Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 11	What do you guys think about that port-it-yourself head write up - im thinking about doing it, and that with a blower should be fairly nasty - like you all are saying.

06-28-2006, 07:01 AM	#40 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,015	the 5.4L already uses the longest rod I've ever come across in a production motor at 6.658". it's longer than any chebbie or ford big block rod. The 2V heads are also largely responsible for the massive bias toward tq on the 5.4. With 4V heads the 5.4 tq output is less impressive in ratio to the hp production. It's actually a lot more similar to the 4.6 with somewhere in the 300hp/345tq which is basically ratio equal to the 240hp/280tq that you commonly find in 4.6 2v. the 2v heads limiting of hp production assures that the math of the matter will bias to the other side and boost tq to insane levels as tq and hp are numerically related to rpm. To learn more about predicting hp and tq based on each other, google it.

06-28-2006, 11:09 AM	#42 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,015	I'm not saying the 4v heads don't perform as well.. actually they're much more balanced on the 5.4 than the 4.6. What I'm saying is that hp is a function of tq and rpm and vice versa. The general statement of longer stroke=bigger tq is valid and if it seemed like I was contradicting you that was not my intent. That statement is totally valid as any stroker motor will show. My point was that the 2v head on modulars is limited enough in flow that it biases the power production wildly to the tq side on the 5.4L. If the intake side of the heads and the manifold itself were higher flowing the hp and tq would tend to even out a little more but tq would still be the big player until blower/turbo comes in or until cams got a bit wilder than stock. Cliffs notes: Karls04GT and I seem to agree. I think the single biggest issue with the 5.4 is the cams. They just plain lack duration sufficient to fill those loooooong chambers well. Add duration and things get right interesting on the quick. The 6.8L V10 is a 5.4L with 2 extra holes. It uses the same pistons and rods as the 5.4, but only the pistons are the same as the 4.6. It's also an oddfire motor (IIRC it fires at 50 and 90 degrees), while 5.4L's fire at 90 degree intervals.

06-28-2006, 11:46 AM	#44 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,015	I still think the windors were the best motor ford ever created. The modulars are stronger but they were a comprimise between manufacturability and utility. They (modulars) are superior in several aspects but they still lack the ability to get a really good displacement for the physical size of the engine and they're tempermental which makes them less than ideal for really rugged use cases. I'd have a modular over a windsor any day but that's based on my desired use cases and a propensity to like more modern things than traditional things.

08-23-2006, 10:36 AM	#45 (permalink)
Saleen S330 Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sumter, SC Posts: 900	Shorty headers will be on this weekend and next week should get another dyno run to see what i'm at. If i can find a dam scanner, mine still doesn't work, i can slap it up to show everyone. more to follow.....

07-31-2007, 08:21 AM	#50 (permalink)
r3dn3ck Wowbagger hates me too! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Magrathea/California Posts: 7,015	needs fatter cams... you can really make impressive gains with more duration. You never have to worry about PTV either so you can get bigger lift too. It's worth it in spades on the 3v. I'm betting you see a 15hp or better gain from cutting the runners down to 11". Show some intake pics or I'll e-choke you. hehe. How exactly did you get 7" cut out .... hmmmmm. Hurry up... I gotta see this setup.

07-31-2007, 02:36 PM	#51 (permalink)
myillwillinc Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 654	post up some pics of it... __________________ 5.4 project in progress linky-> http://www.illwillinc.com/97mustang.htm T-Rods Coatings - Custom all the way.... http://www.illwillinc.com/

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